New study challenges the notion that absolute pitch can't be learned as an adult

The study is here.

This is an interesting development, especially since they include the methodology they use in the study. I’m not good at programming, but it feels like it should be reasonably easy to program something that can do something similar to this methodology.

It might be a bit of a white whale, but I’d love to be able to pick out notes without needing a reference pitch.

Notably the study appears to only have been about single notes rather than chords and harmonies which people with absolute pitch can definitely identify, but I’ll take being able to identify single notes just fine.

2 Likes

Nearly 20 years ago, I bought a product that claimed to teach you perfect pitch. It wasn’t the old school David Burgess one. I can’t remember exactly, but IIRC it had you try to associate certain tones with prominent tones in important recordings to you.

For example, I tried to associate B with the the first note of Choros No. 1 by Heitor Villa-Lobos. (I just tried to do this again and was off by one semi-tone).

I didn’t really stick with it, though.

1 Like

I have never bought products or even thrown much time at this. But the few times I have dabbled I have done it with familiar recordings. Often when I try it “cold” and test myself I am a semi tone flat. Not sure what that tells me about myself lol!

Even if I start humming some favorite tune I haven’t listened to in a while, then bring up the recording, I’ll find the same thing has happened.

Anyway it’s always fascinated me. I need to read the article in the OP…

From what I can tell, the method CactusWren described is a known phenomenon - even people who aren’t trained musicians will apparently usually sing a song they know in the “correct” key. Source for that here.

However, that is (from the research I’ve done) not an example of absolute or perfect pitch because you’re still mentally “comparing” a given pitch you hear to one you know; it’s still relative pitch.

Absolute pitch apparently means just being able to know what the pitch you hear is without having to compare it to anything; this was even brought up in the methodology mentioned in the article in the first post, how they worked as hard as possible to try to eliminate that as a factor in the study.

Of course, whether or not the students in the study in the original post are getting absolute pitch or not, it’s still an incredible achievement in ear training - I’d be happy to have relative pitch that let me identify any note within a fraction of a second of hearing it!

2 Likes

after finding out about italian solfeggio, i made up my mind a few years ago that this is most important. and i hypothesize that it spawned absolute pitch over time in those that practiced things in all keys.

I’ve played classical guitar for a long time. I don’t have perfect pitch but every time I picked up the guitar and tuned it, always starting with the A-string and carefully tuning it, it eventually got ”stuck” in my brain. I have learned where it lays in my mouth and are able to sing an A before even starting tuning it. I also have done the David Burgee tape in later years. I am convinced that If you stick too his plan you will be able to hear more colors and pitches. It’s more about being present and not trying to ”think too much”. It’s more like a feeling of the different vocings and pitches. That’s at least my strong belief!

Correct! In fact, researchers at University of Chicago had proven that 10 years ago in 2015! They also said perfect pitch is not as rare as people think. (I can’t include link for some reason, you can find it by Googling “university of chicago acquiring perfect pitch may be possible some adults”

Personally I don’t care too much for having perfect pitch but I’ve been training for interval identification. Hoping it can help me become better at improvisation. Often I play the melody in my head and I’d just guess where the next note is at. If I can feel the interval aka the distance, that would probably take a lot of the guessing work out lol

1 Like

I agree. Interval training takes you a long way. And also being able to hear different colours like different dominant chords, and If you are at the second, forth ect step in the chord scale, will help out a lot. But of course, knowledge like prfect pitch, isn’t heavy to bare and will only give you another tool to express yourself. But I don’t think it is worth all the practice time…

I also believe playing Jazz standards helps a lot with both ear training and ”knowing your notes”.

I enjoyed my Ear Training class because it was taught by a dude with a guitar. But I hated the studying of it on the school’s computer because it was a digital piano sound. The difference between those told me a lot.

Intervals aren’t too bad but starting out with no reference can be really tough. There are certain notes that I will never not know what they are, even if I hadn’t heard an actual note in awhile. The first one that always comes to mind is the C# from Crash Into Me by Dave Matthew’s Band. An F from a dial tone, though you gotta be old to get that one lol The D in Walk by Pantera is another one. Just a few of those gets you started to where if you have a really firm grasp on intervals in general, you can almost come off as having Perfect Pitch.

Further complicating things, he’s about a quarter step flat.

Haha, yup. But I’ve played the riff enough that I can hear the natural D.

I don’t have absolute pitch.

I have auditory-visual synesthesia, and since color is involved, it’s a specific type called chromesthesia.

I bring this up, because so many people get confused with both synesthesia and absolute pitch, especially when music’s involved, and they think it’s something to be other than what it is.

Absolute pitch is not hearing a pitch, and referencing a known pitch to figure out what you heard.

Absolute pitch is moreso you hear the note Bb, and you know it to be Bb. No reference, no need to figure out if it’s Bb, you hear it, and you just know it to be Bb.

Likewise, with my chromesthesia, sure, anyone can imagine a given note to have a certain color. But that’s not what I’m doing when I say when I hear sounds, I see colors.

When I hear Bb, I’m not imagining it to be gold, I just inherently know it’s gold. I can see the pitch vibrating gold.

That’s the distinction to be making, in my opinion. If you have to reference something, it’s not absolute pitch. Absolute pitch is you hear it, and you just know it to be that note.

I want to make this crystal clear, because so many people, even very smart and learned people can be confused by relative pitch that’s trained so well it looks like to an outside observer to be the same thing as absolute pitch, when what they’re really seeing is really strong relative pitch.

Hope this can give some clarification, speaking as someone that doesn’t experience music like a typical person. To me, music is both sound and color.

And that’s what makes absolute pitch kinda special. It’s a very unique way to experience music, to be able to know, without a reference, what you’re hearing.

3 Likes

Well now I’m fascinated. Lemme ask you this: can you perceive shades of that gold if the Bb is 20 cents off? How do you perceive slow, continuous sweeps of tone? Say from A to C? Man, brains are weird and awesome.

3 Likes

So if it is quiet, are there no colors? Where do the colors show up in your vision? What happens if you hear a chord or someone talking? Do notes an octave up or down have the same color? Do you have 12 distinct colors for 12 notes?

2 Likes

And what about the overtones? Do you see shades of the other colors in it?

2 Likes

Wow, holy crap guys, wasn’t expecting that response!

I figured I’d answer all of you in one reply, less clutter that way!

:upside_down_face:

Well now I’m fascinated. Lemme ask you this: can you perceive shades of that gold if the Bb is 20 cents off? How do you perceive slow, continuous sweeps of tone? Say from A to C? Man, brains are weird and awesome.

It’s like a fader switch.

Moving from A to C slowly and smoothly I’d see it go from orange, to amber, to gold, to yellow, and to green, which is C.

So if it is quiet, are there no colors? Where do the colors show up in your vision? What happens if you hear a chord or someone talking? Do notes an octave up or down have the same color? Do you have 12 distinct colors for 12 notes?

Generally speaking, the colors get more definite the louder the music is, and they tend to wash out the quieter the music is.

There’s also two types of synesthetes when it comes to visual forms of synesthesia: projectors and associators.

Associative synesthesia is like when you see the color in your mind, but not your vision.

Projective synesthesia is like you see the color in your vision like it’s on a screen in your visual field.

For me, they look different depending on the timbre of the instrument and the performance, but notes look like small, vibrating musical dots, not unlike what you’d see in sheet music.

I do have 12 distinct colors for the 12 notes, and generally, the higher in pitch, the brighter the hue of the color is, and the lower the pitch, the darker it tends to be.

As far as the colors, for the natural notes, A-B-C-D-E-F-G, they look like this:

  • A = orange.
  • B = yellow.
  • C = green.
  • D = blue.
  • E = indigo/dark/navy blue.
  • F = purple.
  • G = red.

And for the accidentals, they’re kinda in between, and are:

  • A#/Bb = amber or gold.
  • C#/Db = cyan.
  • D#/Eb = blue violet.
  • F#/Gb = magenta.
  • G#/Ab = vermilion.

As you can see, between D up to E is like a wash of blue-ish, so sometimes I have a hard time figuring out D, D#/Eb, and E. I usually tend to trust that pure blue is D, pure indigo is E, and the dark in-between color which I’m calling blue-violet is D#/Eb.

Chords simply just look like stacked notes to me, so it’s not like they blend together. Makes inversions really easy to understand.

Keys are the real weird one, they show up kinda like a color filter and more of a general vibe and feeling.

For example, my favorite piece from Dark Souls III is the Farron Abyss Watchers Theme.

To me, it shows up as a rich, dark plum color. The purple leads my brain into thinking our root note is F, and the darker color gives me the feeling this is in a minor key.

As far as voices, those are the most distinct and varied amongst any musical instrument, and a lot of times people have a unique voice, so they each have a unique color, and sometimes that color is one I can’t even name because it’s in-between an in-between color, lol. For reference, Bruce Dickinson is a powerful blue, Pavarotti is the closest you can get to a gold voice without being gold. I dunno, it’s like a rich in-between amber and gold sorta color. Sopranos tend to be very bright, and Simone Simons of Epica is a very bright almost star-like yellow.

Voices are the hardest for me because they’re so unique and dynamic. Even the colors I used are approximations because the beauty of singing is being so good to be able to sing dead on the note, but choosing to go ever so sharp or flat of the note for reasons of overtones.

If it’s more definite, and it’s singing, that’s how I can tell it’s auto-tuned, because the natural human voice is more expressive and dynamic.

And what about the overtones? Do you see shades of the other colors in it?

Overtones add up to different timbres to me, which skew what I see, giving instruments their own tone-color.

Guitars are a rich blue, violins are a bright red, cellos, a dark more blood red, trumpets a bright gold, flutes, almost a completely washed green, pianos a rich green.

Like keys, it’s more of a filter and general vibe, not really definite like notes are, if any of this is making sense, lol.

But generally, most music is like a wash of dynamically changing color, and some genres excite my synesthesia more.

As you can imagine, crowded shopping centers, loud, incongruous noises, white noise (more like gray noise for me), and binaural beats are just… ugly to me.

Music though, is very awesome, and THC tends to amplify things.

Considering I’m ADHD and autistic too, I do take stimulants to manage my ADHD, and the medication attenuates my synesthesia somewhat.

So, yeah. Hope this gives you all an insight into what I experience.

2 Likes

Wow thanks for such detail, sounds neat. Are you able to quieten the minds eye, or does it always activate when hearing frequency?

It always activates every time I hear a sound. I can’t shut it off, lol.

1 Like

Man that is rough, sorry man. do you have to wear ear plugs when going to bed?

Since I have sensitive hearing as a blessing of being neurodivergent (ADHD and autism), I tend to wear earphones most of the time anyways, because I found it really helps in the grocery store, malls, shopping centers and such.

Helps to make all of that a bit more manageable.

I also tend to tune out as best I can background noise when I’m driving, and the music is on very quietly, or at least, on loud enough to where the colors are transparent enough to see through.

But at home, I actually find the TV helps, or having something on that isn’t pure white noise or isn’t music, because music is too engaging and excites my brain, kinda the opposite of what you want when you wanna sleep, lol.

2 Likes