Next Steps for String Hoppers

Technique Critique
#1

I’ve got a bad case of string hopping and it was only recently discovered as I’ve spent years at a speed plateau. I’ve watched a few of Troy’s videos that talk about the problem and I’m wondering what my next steps are.

In the videos, he shows examples just like mine (and even references Eric Johnson - who actually abandons the method at higher speeds)

Anyways, by the end of the videos - it suggests working on a fast tremolo pick - which I can do and can get really quick at.

Now, I’m wondering what is the next few steps of what I should be doing. I feel like I know the problem and I want to see what my long term game plan should be.

Here’s a quick 1 minute video of what I’m trying to do VS what I’m doing… just in case I actually misdiagnosed the problem:

Any tips or suggestions would be much appreciated - THANKS!

#2

As far as the Runnin’ Down a Dream lick goes, have you tried inside picking it instead of outside? That would change the harder part (picking from high E to B) to DSX instead of USX, which might suit you better from what I can tell of your hand and arm position (the other player in your vid has a very supinated arm compared to your more neutral one).

#3

I’ll give that a try… I think of the phrase as having two distinct sections in order …

  1. the B to E (where the B has a hammer on)
  2. the E to B (again, with a B hammer on)

Would I try a different escape motion for each of these sections?

Secondly, as I’ve gone through the Pickslanting Primer - I’m wondering what my next step is… I’ve got the tremolo pick to be fast but I don’t know WHAT to do with it. It seems like if I slow down and practice any kind of exercise - the possibility exists that I might unknowingly go back to hopping (or a subtle version of it that I can’t easily detect)

With the pick slanting primer - it moves from discovering that speed and then goes into the escape motions. If I’m trying to build that technique at a high speed - what do I practice BESIDES just hanging on one note and thinking - “oh look that goes fast and I’m not feeling any strain” but when I go back to this Runnin’ Down a Dream - it feels impossible to employ. (presumably from the string transitions)

So do I have exercises that I should start on with one string only to start getting my fretting hand to sync up with my tremolo picking OR am I just supposed to advance from the tremolo picking to the Escape Motions?

#4

When you tremolo pick, do you know what escape you are making? Most people end up with either DSX or USX happening automatically when they try to pick as fast as possible, so the general idea here is to try capitalizing on that escape first, before going for the other one (if ever going for the other one).

If you can, post a vid of your tremolo so we can see what’s going on - advising you from there will be easier.

I suggested inside picking that particular lick because it would make it easier for a DSX player, if that’s what you are. The string change becomes down and then up, and then you have a brief moment with the hammer on to get back to the high E. If you start it with an upstroke, that would want to be trapped (you’re swiping it sometimes, especially apparent when playing the notes E D B, you can hear an E B doublestop most repetitions).

#5

Here’s a quick little video:

Let me know if this angle is good enough to see if I’m a DSX or USX player - I’m trying to “play fast” and not overthink it to see what comes out naturally!

Here’s another clip w/better angle (?)

#6

Well, the idea is that string hopping is limited to a maximum speed because it is an inefficient motion, and going over that speed would not be possible comfortably, I believe Troy has that speed at 120bpm 16ths or Mach 1 as he refers to it. In other words, a motion that goes really fast comfortably is good.

Edit: You should try playing something like this to see if your motion hits the strings whenever you try switching strings. image
The idea is that if you are a DSX player, you would start the lick on an upstroke and if you are a USX player, you would start it on a downstroke. In the DSX case, the first note would be an upstroke and the second note would be a downstroke and thus escape:

image
image1024×576 76.6 KB

The pick would be midair and thus you can switch strings without hitting a string on the way. And the pattern repeats infinitely.

You can even play the motion using the open strings to focus on your picking and I highly recommend going at your top tremolo speed to see if your motion holds up since that would mean that it would be basically impossible for you to string hop to switch strings. You can also try 6 note per string patterns which follow the same principle and are easier to play at higher speeds than 2 note per string patterns.

#7

Only the audio is coming through - I am not sure if uploading videos directly to the forum actually works (unless everyone else can see your vids and it’s an issue on my end). Your best bet is to put it on youtube, mark it as unlisted, and then post the link here on its own line, with a blank line before and after.

#8

Ok will do that now!

1 Like
#9
#10

Gut reaction is you’re a DSX player, but your picking seems pretty “neutral” here.

#11

It’s a little hard to tell, but I think you’ve either got a very slight DSX, or are trapped. You have a “garage spikes” situation going on, too, mostly with your downstrokes - you can see you’re getting more resistance against the string with those, and sometimes are missing the string entirely when coming back on the upstroke. Typically this means the pickslant and the picking motion itself aren’t aligned correctly.

If I were you, I would try smoothing out the tremolo first - try to find a sweet spot in your setup where the pickstrokes even out.

#12

I’ve had a very similar form at some point in my picking career and I’ve found that adding a slight pronation to the wrist is what allows me to escape easily out of the strings. You can also experiment with curling your thumb which adds edge-picking to the mix and makes the motion smoother.

Video demonstration

#13

Hey man, now keep in mind that I don’t have a damn clue about much so you will have to take what I write with a grain of salt;

Your setup reminds me of mine as far as your right hand goes, and the pick looks like it clears the strings on a downstroke and is trapped in the strings on the upstroke. I would have a pretty neutral hand position so that I could get a good mute on the strings, but I have since embraced my pronation and exaggerated it a bit. Maybe it will help you to do that as well.

That lick isn’t really compatible as strict alternate picking for DSX folks as arranged; it’s 3 notes so it when you start it over it starts on a different stroke, DUD then UDU etc etc
D U D U D U
---------------10------------------10—
—10—12--------10 —12---------

So for me, the most obvious workaround is to place the whole darn thing on a single string if I MUST alternate pick it. Honestly, it’s the string changes that introduce the real picking challenge, so if you just want a quick and dirty solution - remove the string changes! The notes don’t care where they are, as long as they are the right notes and then it’s up to you, the player to ensure that the articulations and inflections sound the way you want.

-----10–12–15—10–12–15

The other thing you could do is not alternate pick everything and simply insert a hammer-on; That buys you time to get your plectrum to the next string.

--------------------10----
------10-H-12----------

Even number of notes works best for us DSX people starting on an upstroke.

Even number of notes is always going to work best for single escape and strict alternate picking situations. Odd note things require either some sort of escape hatch ie legato or hybrid or sweep or DBX or bribery.
I hope that helps, man.

2 Likes
#14

If you don’t mind a little bit of economy picking you can do D U D D U D D U with DSX for that lick.

#15

Yeah, it’s doable, but I don’t love that “backwards hop” feeling to get that downstroke, and it’s kind of more work than it’s worth to get it to “feel” right in the context of the song.

Quick and dirty, I’d just do it with hammerons or on a single string. That’s just me though.

#16

It’s definitely something you get used to the more you do and the luxury of using a single motion to go through two strings is amazing at high speeds. The hammer-on approach is great as well, its very easy to get stuck in the mindset of picking every note but ““cheating”” every once in a while is not so bad :smiley: