So, in watching the recent “Secrets of Gambale Sweeping” there is a section where it’s shown that Gambale and predecessors John McLaughlin and George Benson often play phrases with even number of notes per string (2 or 4). I also understand how odd numbers of notes per string (usually 1 or 3) work with sweep or economy picking. I get it, but I find it hard to believe that players like this (meaning players know to have a high degree of improvisation in their work) have meticulously worked this out. I’m assuming that they have figured out by feel what kinds of phrases work with their technique and how they lay on the strings. Maybe I’m wrong? I’ve worked out picking for melodies but I cannot imagine trying to think about this when I’m improvising. Thoughts?
I think they did it like everyone does when learning guitar: collecting bunch of licks, runs, passages etc creating their vocabulary wtihout thinking much about stratgey. Then combining this elements they create solo or whatever.
For example, I like to put short 2 string runs with 3 notes on first string. It’s just I like the feeling, and I can play it fast (more or less). Now I know - that’s because I was UWPS. But I was not aware about this fact until CtC. So it’s not like you consiously choose the way to play the lick, more like your hand tells you what to do and how to do it in the easiest way.
Though now we as CtC followers can do this consiously witout time consuming trial and error way )
Rephrasing my piano teacher, all you actually play is whether scalar movements or arpeggio movements with occasional jumps. I may add that you also have pentatonic movement on a guitar, since it feels a bit different. So once you get enough hours of practice with this movements (reagrdless of what mechanics you use) you start to use them to create melody. Once again without thinking much about how you do it, since it’s already ingrained in your motor memery.
There is video of George endorsing this teacher, so I view him as authoritative. I suspect that zero attention is given to the pick or any form of counting, and improvisation is happening at the level of language, NOT in terms of patterns, boxes, modes, or whatever else that beginner musicians seem to be concerned with. That said, I absolutely believe that Troy’s statements are correct as well.
In reality you use patterns, boxes etc whether you want it or not. So you thnik musically and technically at the same time. You think “now I want ot play that descending ta-ta-ta-ti-ti with maj7sus2 flavor” and then your hands do it. It’s not like you really think much about what frets or picking sequence to use. You have already learnt it. Practice makes perfect.
Though many people confuse composing with improvising which are totally different beasts.
I guess think of it like a language.
When you speak in sentences, like: “the guitarist played the difficult phrase beautifully” you aren’t thinking necessarily about saying noun - verb - adjective - noun - adverb. You’ve just learned so many words and phrases over your lifetime that you do it automatically. You’re not thinking about the rules - you may not even know them. It just feels right to say it that way and in that order.
You have freedom of expression in the moment, whilst naturally and organically using a predetermined set of learned rules.
And crucially, it would weird and wrong feel to in a different order say it.
So you automatically steer clear of phrases that feel wrong, and flow naturally through all the correct phrases that you have used before many times.
Awesome observations from everyone here. I think language is a great analogy. Language is super structured and has all kinds of rules you have to follow for anyone to understand you. But nobody thinks about those rules while they’re speaking, and there is plenty of grammar I’m personally not even aware of, especially in my native language, which I learned by doing. But you can diagram out my sentences and show that I follow the rules, even when I’m not aware I’m doing so.
I usually say that music is a language, though unlike spoken one which we use to share information, in the case of music we share emotions )
Anyway. I can imagine how a picking system could be developed without even thinking about it. In my case when I started to play a guitar I didn’t think about picking hand at all. I was thinking about sound I want to get and a fret I need to press. My right hand was doing something and it worked so I didn’t care. It was CtC that made me analyze all that stuff and now I know that I have alternate picking, sweeping and a lot of different stuff happening. I remember that at first I was trying to start every new string with a downstroke. It wasn’t consious choice though, but it served like some kind of reference for my right hand. Later I got rid of this habit partially (now I know why - because I am not a downward pickslanter).
But in the case of natural downward pickslanter it stays the same. Let’s say he plays some phrases with even number of notes per string. It goes smoothly, fast etc. He doesn’t know why and he didn’t care. Most of us start to care only when something is not working )
And he may be have the same habit of starting new string with a downstroke. Why not? It feels natural, and it works.
Then he tries to play scale-like things with 3 notes per string. He plays first three notes, then… since he has a habit of starting every new string with the downstroke he gets sweeping. Once again he may be not aware of this if he plays more or less fast. I didn’t know that I use sweeping before CtC at all!
Then he tries to play 3 nps in descending motion. And it doesn’t work well. He tries and tries again. He needs to play that song that he wrote. So he end up with trading last pickstroke for a pull-off. And he may not even know about this at first. I mean, we all had that moment when you realize that you don’t pick the last note on a string actually. Sometimes it’s a hammer-on, sometimes - pull-off, or some weaker versions of these two. So he leaves it like that. It works after all.
So, that downward pickslanter came up with whole DWPS system unconsisously. He has alternate picking for even nps, sweeping and pull-offs for odd nps.
As for patterns or boxings choice when improvising, it depends on what you have practiced. Obviously, we can’t use something that we didn’t learn and didn’t practice.
For example, I want to play “twinkle twinkle little star”. I can do it easily. Or should I say - my hands can do it easily. If you ask me what notes I was playing (C,D,E…) I would need some time to answer (especially if I choose first note randomly). You just hear the melody, press the strings at some frets and let your right hand to do whatever it is trained to do.
In case of “Twinkle-twinkle” we have 5th at the begining - the most notable interval that even metal guys aware of )
Then I hear two adjecent notes. They are adjacent in terms of scale, not a fretboard. But the melody has recognisable major sound so I already know that it’s a natural major.
Then I hear simple scale run down to tonic with every note repeated twice. And since I practiced scales a lot that’s not a problem too.
So basically when improvising or playing a melody that you’ve heard you think in terms of sound while your hands do all the job. Well, by “hands” I mean muscle memory, motor memory or whatever - it’s automatic.
I have spoken to quite a number of famous pianists, and they all have this in common from what I can tell:
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They read sheet music and hear a piano in their mind, by analogy to how I read English or Chinese, I hear a voice.
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When they perform, they hear a piano in their mind, and their fingers make the actual piano track their mental piano.
When I said “language,” I literally mean music is every bit as fundamental as English Is to the elite musician.
To my endless annoyance, my GF has perfect pitch, and she thinks I am an idiot for not instantly knowing what key a particular song is in, I have stopped asking. To me, music is NOT a language, and it probably never will be, due to my limitations. However, I think I grasp what goes on in the elites, at least to some degree… of course this has nothing to do with playing quickly, a good thing for me. 
Yep, that’s how it works. Though you don’t have to be famous obviously )
It’s just a matter of practice. Usually you get necessary sightreading skills near 3-4th year of education, as for “pitch”-“piano_key” correlation - 2nd year. At least in russian schools.
As for perfect pitch… as one oldschool piano teacher said: pianist doesn’t need a perfect or relative pitch. He needs a rhythm feeling ))
Improvisation is something that is completely new to me. When I was younger, I’m sure like many, I wanted to play as fast as possible with little regard to harmony.
After years of avoiding theory, I’ve been focusing on theory for the past couple of months. It’s been quite the challenge for me. I catch myself playing a bunch of BS with no melodic value which creates all sorts of frustrating emotions haha
I won’t lie, I feel like I’m going backwards sometimes instead of improving
Thanks for all of the great replies, everyone! Language is clearly the answer.
Since discovering CTC I feel that while I generally have freedom when improvising, there certain kinds of phrases I want to play that require specific techniques to get around the strings. All of the info on number of notes is great but only really applies as I work out phrases I hope to incorporate into my vocabulary with some fluency at higher tempos.
Tangentially: At least for me, improvising at medium tempos feels much freer but at higher tempos I rely much more on vocabulary I’ve already worked out and have available in my motor memory. As a result it feels like a different kind of improvising in a way. Does anyone else feel this?
Hi,
I just joined.
I’m an improvisor (when to music school and toured for 13 years in club bands- whatever) any way, I partake of current the understanding of the definition of improvisation : which is not improvising the arrangement of licks and hand stuff we’ve already practiced (aka compositional playing) but actually creating music in the moment.
I whole heartedly agree that as tempos go up, so does the ratio of compositional playing to improvisation… lower the tempo, the more improvisational the playing - which is why I’m here - to improve right hand tech.
Anyway, I look forward to this conversation over the coming months.
Since applying the CTC analysis to my technique my playing has significantly improved. I’m interested in your question in the way it ntersects with following our ear (as opposed to arranging pre-learnt phrases on the fly : the old-ish definition of improvising - and no value judgements on either - both are valid f course)… in playing what we hear, I’m guessing, or hoping, that the number of notes per string becomes intuitively informed, just like any other part of our technique that serves our improvising.
I agree partially, though it’s contrary about composition and improvising. Composition in its purest form is when you have a note staff sheet, a pen, and your ideas. While improvising is when you have your instrument. So, lower the speed - the more you may do in terms of composing music (even if you don’t know yet how to play it).
I guess here is a little misunderstanding of the term ‘composition’ or more precisely ‘musical composition’.
As for ‘licks’ or ‘phrases’ there’s nothing wrong with using them duiring improvisation, since scales, arpeggios and 20-30 licks allow you to create any kind of melody you want without thinking about separate notes. People sometimes refer to it as ‘melodic shape’ or ‘melodic contour’, sometimes you may hear ‘reference notes’ etc (I don’t know english terms thoug, so this is my rough translation)
Fast players like Yngwie don’t think in terms of separate notes often. People who tried to transcribe his solos were often frustrated. ‘Okay, he has quintuplets, sixtuplets, but where these 11-plets, 17-plets and other stuff came from??’
It’s not a secret. Obvisously when playing fast you don’t have a time to think about separate notes (not 15 notes per second at least). So Yngwie thinks ‘I want to get from this note to this note’ and then his hands play familiar passage, for example harmonic minor scale. But as we know, Yngwie is not a metronome guy. And he doesn’t plan his solo note for note. It’s hard to imagine him sitting at the table above the note staff sheet ( in that case his notes would be more ‘in grid’, like typical 4th,8th,16th, or 3-plets/6-plets). But that’s not what he does. He just put that scale run in the time needed, regardless of rhythm. No separate notes. Just a passage he has in his head.
You don’t have to think about letters when you know whole words.