Pick slanting vs. Economy picking

Playing Technique
#1

I just started playing after a while and I’m trying to correct some things I probably should’ve back in the day.

There is some awesome stuff in You Tube these days, obviously I really like Troy Grady’s stuff and I was wondering about Pick Slanting and Economy Picking. I do use, I guess I didn’t realize I did before, pick slanting but when going up from a lower string into a higher one, when going from 3 (or odds) notes played on that string going up since you end with the pick stuck on the other side.
However the vids I watched show exercises even going the other way, from a higher string into a lower one, in those situations I rather use economy picking, why would I hope over that string to play it upstroke instead of just down? So, can I combine both effectively, I mean pick slanting and economy piking? Or you must embrace the rules of pick slanting and always, always alternate pick up and down, up and down regardless?

Maybe I should watch Cracking the Code again, it makes me think that Malmsteen and other fast players will not use Economy Picking so the upstroke and down stroke movement at highs speed doesn’t get interrupted, so in that sense, are Economy Picking and Pick Slanting mutually exclusive?

Thanks!

#2

I don’t think they are mutually exclusive. I have some economy picking habits from “the old days” before learning about pick slanting. Since learning these concepts from Troy, I can play/approach alternate picking much better.

So I have “keeped” the habit of playing economy when I play 3nps ascending a scale (dwps) but when I descend the scale, I usually alternate. So you could say, “oh that’s a mess” but I really don’t think it is hindering me from doing what I want right now.

(edit: just tried to play a scale up and down. I can use dwps for ascending scales and uwps for descending scales just fine. I haven’t really practiced the uwps descending “economy” scale specifically but I did practice 2wps, specifically the 6notes descending lick. So maybe something has changed and I can do or do this (!!!) already. So much for thinking how I play :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:)

There is no perfect technique, I think we have to embrace the idiosyncrasies of our personal way of playing (as long as it is not hindering you from playing what you want).

Troy did talk about economy and alternate picking here. Is there a topic this guy didn’t cover? :sunny:

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#3

Everyone is different… and most players use a bit of both.

From my point of view… economy picking was much easier to learn… and gave me instant gains on my speed… but in the long-term… it became a bit of a rabbit hole… where I couldn’t improve the sound, timing, or reliability of the picking.

But pure-alternate picking initially had a tough learning curve… but it was worth it in the long-term. And I sound much better after ditching economy picking. Currently, I only use economy picking for very fast sweeping (which I rarely use)… but that’s about it.

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#4

What about players like Rick Graham?

#5

Rick uses a combination of both, he’s quite skilled picker and he says he owes his picking reliability to ‘planting’ the pick next to the string he’s about to pick whenever he can.

Rick’s inhumanly clean sound is from fretting skills which are beyond anyone I’ve ever seen. But 30,000 hours of methodical practicing will do that.

#6

Does this mean that Rick likes rest strokes?

#7

Rest stroke is where the pick ends after a stroke (picking/plucking through the string on to the next string), planting is touching the pick to the string before the stroke.

#8

Im thinking overall its just something to help maintain small and precise picking motions. I dunno if its anything u could actually SEE him doing if we studied him with high speed filming etc. Maybe it would show up more BETWEEN phrases and not during

#9

Right, so if I prefer rest strokes, don’t they leave me “planted” for the next stroke?

#10

If your next stroke is on that string, i.e. if you are economy picking/sweeping, then yes.

#11

Right, but nothing more that that is possible (I suspect), because one can’t mak a stroke, turn around, “plant [stop],” and then continue? That motion would be amazingly complex, as wouldn’t it require start/stop/restart?

In other words, I can see “planting” in the form of a rest stroke, but beyond that, how can it work?

#12

yeah I wouldnt get too hung up on it. note that he said it came from classical technique. That means it is a fingerpicking thing lol

notice he says it isnt for playing, its for TRAINING the rt hand to make the most efficient movement

I have seen other people advocate a similar thing by saying to try to practice alt picking by keeping the pick in contact with the string the whole time

may as well hit the left hand while u are at it lol

fast while relaxed is an absolute key

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#13

Isn’t it discussed, at length, that in the “Volcano lick,” Yngwie actually IS using economy picking for ascending string changes after downstrokes?

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