Picking hand in non-shred solos and how to improve?

[Cocolasticot]

Hi everybody,

I’ve got a problem, my picking hand is very very very bad and slow and I’m not able to play any classic rock solos (ACDC, LZ, GnR, etc…). My right hand is always too slow when I have to cross the strings “quickly” (yes for me it is fast )

I was wondering, when you play a “non-shred solo”, are you thinking about the pickslanting ? Are you playing in a cross picking way ? Or these kind of song is so slow for you that you don’t even think about your right hand ?

Has anyone of you a video of your right hand on one of those solos ? I’m very curious to see how do you do to cross the strings in songs that don’t have any specific structure in their solos in terms of number of notes per string in opposite of a YJM solo for example.

I was also wondering, have you got any advice/method on how to improve my right hand. I mean, for example, a list of exercises, from the easiest to the hardest, with the speed that I should reach on each exercise to continue with the following one ?

I will try to take a video of me trying to play a solo. Maybe you will see an obvious bad thing in my way to trying to play

Thanks !
Thomas

[Acecrusher]

I was wondering, when you play a “non-shred solo”, are you thinking about the pickslanting ?

No, but then again, as far as know, the guitarists who originally played those solos weren’t thinking of pick slanting either.

Are you playing in a cross picking way ?

Not that I know of.

Or these kind of song is so slow for you that you don’t even think about your right hand ?

There are some classic rock solos that are still pretty fast and I do think about the pick hand when I play them. I’m sure If I were to play “Freebird” I’d have to think about my picking hand. Some of Jimmy Page’s solos in Led Zeppelin like “Heartbreaker/Livin’ Lovin’ Maid” and “Since I’ve Been Loving You” go along pretty quickly too.

I suggest you work on solos from songs by those two bands in particular:
Lynyrd Skynyrd and Led Zeppelin to be able to get comfortable playing in a classic rock style. Deep Purple is another. Ritchie Blackmore’s solos can be challenging; the solos in Highway Star and Child In Time move right along.

If solos by those bands are beyond your capabilities right now, you might want to learn some solos by Pink Floyd and The Rolling Stones.

You don’t need to worry about exercises to play solos I listed except maybe the solo to “Freebird.” That’s a pretty impressive solo and I haven’t seen a lot of guys play it the right way, even in this era of high speed techniques being ubiquitous.

Rather than work on exercises, just play the songs and of course make sure you’re familiar with the pentatonic minor scale in all positions. What it sounds like you need to work on is just getting more time in with the guitar and in the process, developing your coordination. That’s something people seem to rarely discuss here, but that’s really what’s at the heart of the matter here - your coordination. When you’ve got good coordination and you’ve got your bending and vibrato developed, these solos will become second nature to you.

If you want video examples, I don’t video record myself - I don’t have a video camera anyway, but with the advent of YouTube you can watch these songs played by the original bands! What could be better than that? You’ll find multiple versions of these all over YouTube with the band playing the same song on different nights of the same tour or even on different tours. You’ll notice they make it look pretty effortless. That’s how it should feel! If you’re straining as hard as you can to physically keep up with them, chances are you’re using inefficient technique.

Let feel be your guide. If it feels too hard even after putting the requisite amount if practice in, then modify your technique to make playing these songs and solos less physically demanding to play. A few, like the solo to “Freebird” are always going to be somewhat physically taxing because they’re just playing a whole lot of notes at a good pace. “Highway” Star" moves right along too.

For the most part though, these other solos are about feel, not about trying to play as fast as you can. My guess is that you’re just going to have to be patient as your physical coordination develops to the point where you can play classic rock solos without them feeling excessively physically demanding.

If you need teacher here’s a guy I have heard excellent things about and he teaches private lessons via internet everything from classic rock to metal:
https://www.facebook.com/Stratmate7/?tn=%2Cd%2CP-R&eid=ARCdLQtdmDSp-BJcJkjutt5bg-zrffG8zScvarzo2odGhUPewqoePkBGsQZxzqY76bSqsctl6TZYX_Ti

[tommo]

I don’t play classic rock solos very often (I like them a lot though), but I would still approach them with the “CTC” mindset, right-hand wise (i.e. avoid inefficient movements/stringhopping). In fact, I often find them tricky for the left hand as well, due to the common occurrence of bends and vibrato (with the associated muting challenges).

It would be good to have a concrete example of a solo you like, possibly with tabs, so that we may be able to construct an efficient picking strategy together.

In my own playing this is the most “classic rock” thing I have attempted to record so far. Not sure I did a great job for this style, but my approach fro the pickstrokes was quite “mathematical”. The only part that required some optimization is around 0:20, where I am making sure that the string changes are done with “inside picking”. Not sure why but for medium speeds and adjacent strings this gives me cleaner results (probably because the risk of swiping is minimized?).

[Cocolasticot]

Thanks for your answers !

@Acecrusher

I suggest you work on solos from songs by those two bands in particular:
Lynyrd Skynyrd and Led Zeppelin to be able to get comfortable playing in a classic rock style. Deep Purple is another. Ritchie Blackmore’s solos can be challenging; the solos in Highway Star and Child In Time move right along.

At this moment I’m working on the Stairway to heaven solo (yes sorry I think that you hear this song too much ahah), and there are 2 or 3 quick licks that are difficult to me to play. I can play the song at something like 80 or 85% of the speed, and I’m not able to play faster without loosing the control and feeling tense in my arm and fingers.

@Acecrusher

Rather than work on exercises, just play the songs and of course make sure you’re familiar with the pentatonic minor scale in all positions. What it sounds like you need to work on is just getting more time in with the guitar and in the process, developing your coordination. That’s something people seem to rarely discuss here, but that’s really what’s at the heart of the matter here - your coordination. When you’ve got good coordination and you’ve got your bending and vibrato developed, these solos will become second nature to you.

Oh yes you’re probably right ! I know that I have to improve my coordination. For the coordination you think that work the songs is enough ? Or you do some exercises for that ?

@Acecrusher

If you want video examples, I don’t video record myself - I don’t have a video camera anyway, but with the advent of YouTube you can watch these songs played by the original bands! What could be better than that? You’ll find multiple versions of these all over YouTube with the band playing the same song on different nights of the same tour or even on different tours. You’ll notice they make it look pretty effortless. That’s how it should feel! If you’re straining as hard as you can to physically keep up with them, chances are you’re using inefficient technique.

Yes it depressing to see how easy it is for them to play their songs, even if they’re drunk or even worse ahah. My problem with these videos is that we never see the right hand as we can see in the Troy videos, I was just wondering what looks like in details a right hand (and specially changing string) on rock songs

@tommo

It would be good to have a concrete example of a solo you like, possibly with tabs, so that we may be able to construct an efficient picking strategy together.

These are few examples of songs that I would like to play, but each time I try to learn one, it feel too difficult, and I think that I have to play an easier one : Stairway to heaven, Hotel California, Sweet Home Alabama, any ACDC or GnR (but I know that it is more difficult to play Slash things), Queen, KISS, ZZ Top, etc… in fact every famous 70s and 80s bands And I think that I’m not able to play a simple song of this list easily (And I play guitar for something like 6 years now I think so…).

At this moment (for few weeks now) I’m trying the Stairway solo from this tab STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN TAB by Led Zeppelin @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

@tommo

In my own playing this is the most “classic rock” thing I have attempted to record so far. Not sure I did a great job for this style, but my approach fro the pickstrokes was quite “mathematical”. The only part that required some optimization is around 0:20, where I am making sure that the string changes are done with “inside picking”. Not sure why but for medium speeds and adjacent strings this gives me cleaner results (probably because the risk of swiping is minimized?).

Thanks for your video ! What do you mean by “mathematical”?

[PickingApprentice]

There are examples of where people such as Andy wood will switch from crosspicking when playin slow/medium/fast to a 1way/2way pickslanting for shred lines. But judging by your post, it seems that this isn’t really a concern for you at the moment. You need (in my opinion) is to find the motion mechanic that works best (fast and effortless) and work with that by incorporating any picking system featured in CTC - yngwie & Johnson 1WPS, Batio 2WPS or economy picking. Once you latch onto one that feels more natural, use that method to make the classic rock solos work for you, don’t worry about trying to conquer all the CtC licks - they are there to demonstate the method. @Acecrusher and @tommo posts both contain very good points that focus on more than just the speed - relaxed playing with good feel and vibrato are more important. Definitely keep us posted on your progress and as @tommo advised, give an example of what you are working on.

[hamsterman]

This was actually an issue for me for a short while. My issue was that my pick-stroke was just too small. I had focused on tiny movements to gain speed, and those same mechanics were kinda useless ‘across the strings’.

As far as escaping, i’d strongly recommend a double-escaped for the slower speeds, but there are many guitarists who don’t even alternate pick at that speed… they just do downward strokes, and that’s it. I’m not a big fan of that.

One thing about a double-escaped stroke, is once you got it down, it makes playing so much more reliable. Every stroke starts to become the same mechanic, regardless of what your playing, and that is much easier for me to maintain. I never get that ‘stuck’ sensation anymore.

[70sBigHeadStrat]

Is this kind of like why Yngwie cant “play slow” like, say a blues solo, when Yngwie does blues, its still an Yngwie solo.

[Cocolasticot]

@PickingApprentice

But judging by your post, it seems that this isn’t really a concern for you at the moment.

Yes you’re right, I feel very slow with all the picking ways ahah.
I’ll watch again the CTC videos, and the new Primer videos, they seems very interesting

@hamsterman

One thing about a double-escaped stroke, is once you got it down, it makes playing so much more reliable. Every stroke starts to become the same mechanic, regardless of what your playing, and that is much easier for me to maintain. I never get that ‘stuck’ sensation anymore.

Do you mean that one day, without expecting it, you have found the mechanic that works you with you, without necessarily working on trying to improve the speed ?

@70sBigHeadStrat

Is this kind of like why Yngwie cant “play slow” like, say a blues solo, when Yngwie does blues, its still an Yngwie solo.

It’s a challenge to find something played slowly by Yngwie

[hamsterman]

Do you mean that one day, without expecting it, you have found the mechanic that works you with you, without necessarily working on trying to improve the speed ?

I had to spend quite a bit of time ‘finding’ the right mechanic…lots of experimenting, and dead-ends. And during this ‘experimentation’ phase I would always spend at least some time trying to play it fast… and sometimes I could do it, sometimes I couldn’t. But after a couple years of this, it eventually all came together.

[Cocolasticot]

@hamsterman

I had to spend quite a bit of time ‘finding’ the right mechanic…lots of experimenting, and dead-ends. And during this ‘experimentation’ phase I would always spend at least some time trying to play it fast… and sometimes I could do it, sometimes I couldn’t. But after a couple years of this, it eventually all came together.

Thanks ! I will persevere ! There is no reason at all that I can’t improve my speed

You were asking for what I’m currently working on. This is the stairway to heaven solo, and there a few bars on which I’ve got problems :

The bars 124 - 125 and 130 - 131. Almost all notes are picked (where as it is only HO and PO for everything else), and each string change is very difficult for me. How would you play that ?

Thanks

[hamsterman]

I’d just alt-pick those lines. I did a lot of 2 note per string practicing over the last few years and would always try to switch stroke directions, so this kinda stuff is very second nature to me now.

But I do remember trying this a few years back, and having problems.

[Cocolasticot]

My problem is, if you play it with a downward pickslanting, you are trapped on each string change, so, is the song slow enough to not care about being trapped, and string hopping is not a problem ? Or you play it in a crosspicking way, but, is it easy to be fast enough with cross picking to reach this speed ? Or naturally, you play it in a upward pickslanting way ?
That is why I was asking for close up videos on the right hand, to see what kind of mechanic is adopted for this kind of songs

[hamsterman]

Yes, that was my issue as well in the past. There are plenty of lines like this where you might be in this grey zone.

For me, I pretty much never pick-slant anymore… but I occasionally fall into single-escaped mode at very fast speeds… but it’s become very rare.

From what I’ve seen, cross-picking/double-escaped picking that isn’t ‘hopping’ should get you to about 135 bpm 16ths… and at that speed, you should be able to do it without any swiping or airballs, and you can pick absolutely anything… including skipping strings, etc.

The elite players can usually push this up, closer to 150ish, but even they will do an occasional swipe, but for the most part, it sounds pretty darn good though. For me, it’s really rare when I can’t cleanly pick anything at 145ish, including wild stuff, like triple-sting skipping, etc. So anything at or below that speed, I just alternate pick it, no matter what it is.

But this kinda mechanic isn’t for everyone. Some people have problems learning the x-picking mechanic, so I can’t say it’s a magic bullet for every guitarist. For others… .they find other ways… like mixing in economy, 2wps, and legato. But I usually tell everyone to at least try X-picking.