Picking Technique Critique - DSX vs USX and 2WPS

Technique Critique
#1

Hello all. First critique video. This was copied and pasted from a thread from a few days ago where I responded to Troy about my technique. So here it is

Here ya go Troy. These are some of the motions I use. I held the camera with the left hand so its all on open strings, which is really awkward for me as I need the left hand to track the strings. So these aren’t a totally accurate representation of my technique. But close enough.

Tremolo test - USX forearm motion vs DSX elbow motion. These are generally the fastest motions I can make. But when I go for raw speed, my forearm tenses up a great deal. I have wondered if that has anything to do with the brachial muscle you were talking about for hyperpicking.

The next video is string switching in slo mo. I had the video starting at regular speed and then going to slo mo but for some reason it didn’t upload to YouTube like this. Again, this is on open strings, which is really awkward for me.

When I am fully warmed up (which is absolutely not the case in these videos), pronated DSX is my fastest motion. But there is a caveat - I feel most comfortable with this technique on descending lines, as I naturally developed (unbeknownst to me until you showed up on the interwebs) a 2WPS technique like Martin Miller’s - USX for ascending and DSX for descending lines. Expect it’s not very reliable. Some days its pretty clean. Most its a hot mess.

However, I always do my palm muted metal stuff with supinated USX forearm rotation. This motion and the 2WPS economy stuff is where feel most comfortable and at home on the guitar. I can chug on power chords all day and feel very comfortable.

Despite it being super comfy for chugging, I have never felt comfortable playing lead with that supinated approach. I have always been very uncomfortable alternate picking and navigating strings, so I naturally gravitated toward my 2WPS and sweeping technique that is a hybrid of Martin Miller and Gambale. Even though it’s nowhere near as clean, I naturally gravitate to lines like Gambale plays.

Here is an example of my 2WPS system. This is pretty rough as I think I wore myself out doing the tremolo exercise. I’ve never looked at this technique slowed down. I’m noticing some inefficient motion and possibly some string hopping.

Edit: Notice the “wind ups” in the second video? And notice the pick flop I mentioned? Especially when I switch to USX.

#2

Both tremolos are great!

Can you upload the other videos also at normal speed? With SloMo alone it’s hard to get a sense of the big picture. thanks :slight_smile:

#3

Thanks Tommo. I could upload the videos again and edit them to be half slo mo and half regular speed. Would that work?

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#4

Only commenting on the first clip. Both motions looks awesome and sound perfect. Smooth, even pick attack, everything looks nice and fluid. Without measuring this, it looks about as fast as I personally ever pick.

Edit: Sorry, got the timestamp wrong. 25 seconds is the place.

I will say that when you repeat the “forearm” motion at the end of the clips, it stops being forearm, around 25 seconds or so, and just becomes wrist USX. You can see at that point it’s just the hand moving side to side. You may not realize you’re doing this. But this means you also have wrist technique if you want it. You just have to learn to recognize by feel when it’s happening, and do more of it. It’s a bit like learning to raise one eyebrow — it’s in there, somewhere!

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#5

Are the videos filmed in 120? If so, just upload the slow one separately and place it right below the regular speed in your post. Nice thing about this, is that you can click in the same spot in the timeline in the slow video to see the exact same moment at slow speed, for an easy apples to apples comparison.

#6

Edit: First clip USX split with full speed and slo mo

Does this work?

#7

Sorry, another thing I missed in your first clip. Your elbow motion doesn’t look like only elbow motion. It looks like a little bit of everything, including wrist and forearm. The hand is moving side to side along with the arm, but it’s also wiggling. This is more obvious in this latest slow motion example. If you look at your ring finger sticking out, it’s not just going back and forth, it’s moving in a semicircle, which I assume is forearm.

Is there an issue with this? Well, not if it works! But if you suspect it’s not working in some way, these are things you can look at to say, they are happening, or are they not happening. You can try different positions and grips — middle finger is always great — to see if any of this changes.

Also, for something really different, try flipping the guitar upside down and picking lefty and see if you get different results. Not saying you want to play lefty, but in my case just as an example I simply don’t know how to do forearm as a lefty, so it just doesn’t happen. It’s all wrist, which provides a reference point for what “all wrist” feels like.

#8

USX

2WPS

#9

Well its nice to know those motions look fast and fluid!

When I play slower, it’s wrist motion. When I go for raw speed it’s more elbow. Problem is I tense up a good bit when I go for elbow. Flexing my forearm muscles.

Not really with the technique itself. I’m coming to revelation that maybe its not my picking thats the problem. I think its my left hand can’t keep up. After 4 or 5 years of discovering CtC, I still struggle pretty bad with 2nps minor pentatonic runs ala Eric Johnson and ascending/descending fours on single strings. After being a gigging musician and teacher for so long, it kinda pisses me off that my hand sync is lagging so much. Maybe I need to upload a clip of this.

Edit: I also struggle with Thunderstruck. I’ll get it going then lose my synchronization.

I improvise lines when I play live, and I can’t seem to translate these techniques cleanly into my leads.

I’ve tried this before but never thought about doing just tremolo. I will try that to see what happens.

#10

Sorry for the confusion, I’m not referring to the DSX technique here. I’m referring to your “forearm USX” technique. That motion looks like forearm, or at least partly forearm, in the earlier part of the clip. But around the 25 second mark it becomes a wrist motion and the hand starts moving more side to side. It’s brief, but this is what happens.

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#11

Oh ok. Yes my USX is forearm. I use that mostly for metal chugging stuff. So even when I rest on the strings, it tends to be mostly forearm rotation.

#12

You know what Eric Johnson struggles with? Everything else! No three note per string scales, no DSX licks, no upstroke sweeping. Not even any single-string licks of any kind, apparently. You would think that would be pretty limiting. But he’s done ok!

I know this isn’t exactly the answer to your question. But what I’m getting at is, is there is a type of phrase you can do well, fast, with clean picking? If so, start with that and work outward. Come up with some cool phrases that work with that picking style. Hybrid is also a thing you can look at. Lots of cool ideas there that most alternate pickers never touch.

Your long-term project can be to figure out some new motions or different motions. But that’s the long-range skunkworks stuff. You need stuff you can use right now to do the musical stuff, live playing, etc.

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#13

Maybe I should post a video of this but my go to when I really get warmed up is 2WPS ala Martin Miller and sweeping ala Gambale. This is what I came up with naturally as a teenager just having guitar fun time, as you put it. Always assumed it was wrong because I was following the often bad advice of “start with a down and end with an up”. Always wondered why my phrases ended on downstrokes.

I have spent the last several years working on my one way slanting. I think it’s probably time to just start copping some Gambale licks and return to my norm.

#14

That’s not really how I approach things. I find which technique is working and then write lines for that. That’s how you build up musical vocabulary fast. Can you play a wide variety of vocabulary with the technique that works best, can you play in different musical styles, over different chords, using picking, legato, hybrid, whatever. So much territory to cover there. You’d be a world-class improviser in the same amount of time another person would still be “working on motions”.

There is this tendency to sit back and try to armchair “design” your technique by saying I want to do XYZ technique and I want it to look a certain way and be a certain way. I would venture to say the hit rate on that is super low in the general populace because of the crazy time it takes to figure out how things work and get good at it. You’re welcome to go down that road but I warn you it is long and you will come out the other end with three different ways to play a scale but not a lot of music to show for it.

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#15

Very good point. I came to that realization a few weeks ago. And I have been doing just that - trying to design a technique by cherry picking a few different mechanics. Instead of just working on what does work.

For the last few years, my left hand has felt very sluggish. Maybe its just getting older. But I don’t feel as limber and fast as I used to. Many years ago I learned to undo the death grip with my thumb. And I think thats what’s caused me to lose some synchronization. I find it very difficult to play even medium fast on an acoustic guitar. My fingers can sometimes barely press the notes. So I’m losing a lot of sync that way.

What should I work on remedy this? Sometimes I wonder if I should go back to gripping the neck. And then the opposite, I wonder if I’m still tensing too much with my left hand.

#16

“Death grip” is not how I’d describe anything that feels comfortable on a guitar so I’d probably avoid that!

Are you saying you have a problem on acoustic but not on electric? Is your acoustic running heavier strings with higher action? Because that’s a whole other set of variables you’re introducing. One thing at a time.

Are you sure you have a sluggish fretting problem and how can you test that? For example, sometimes people say they have “synchronization” problems but they post a clip and it turns out to be perfectly synchronized, they’re just fretting the wrong notes. So whatever you think is happening, I’d try and test that to determine exactly what’s happening, when it happens (which phrases / patterns / strings / etc.). And I’d also try and find instances where it’s not happening, if that happens to also be true. That can be a nice clue as to what is causing the issue.

#17

Yeah its definitely the bigger strings and higher action on the acoustic. And if an electric has high action, I can’t really play well at all on it. I guess this comes from comparing myself to someone like Rick Graham or Yngwie or Eddie or Nuno who can play equally fast and beautiful on an acoustic as they can electric. But, I don’t know all the variables - what kinds of strings and action. Although Tom Quayle uses 12s and pretty normal action on his acoustic and can legato just as well on that thing.

I do feel for me it is a sluggishness. Especially on descending lines, like a 4 finger exercise, from pinky to 3rd finger. And sometimes other fingers too on descending licks. They don’t seem to be lifting soon enough and I can hear the pick hitting a microsecond before the fingers.

#18

Yngwie runs stupid light strings on all his acoustic guitars, and it sounds like it. 12 is a more typical light gauge on acoustic. Bluegrass guitars that run 13s with slightly higher action where you use these giant picks are a whole other animal. Almost the entire game of playing those guitars is figuring out the technique where it feels easy. If not, you will tire within half a measure and have no speed, with both forearms burning on top of that.

Do some testing to figure out what specifically is happening and when, and also if there are times when it is not happening. You can also look up some of @Tom_Gilroy’s posts who has addressed left hand efficiency, including postural aspects which may relate here.

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#19

Like this for example. I’m pretty warmed up here too. Just wondering if you see anything out of the ordinary or if I just need to practice more lol. This is one of those things I feel should be easier for me. But I think it stems from still subconsciously thinking that classic rock songs like this are somehow easier than shred stuff. Which obviously isn’t always true.

#20

You’ll never hear anyone from Cracking the Code say “just practice”. It’s the worst advice of all time. Practice what? Practice how?

I haven’t thought a lot about fretting so I can’t comment on what you look like. If you told me this felt fine I’d say sure.

Personally, I don’t find this particularly stressful at all, particularly considering you’re actually only fretting half the notes. Synchronization is a little tricky as you speed up, because there are no fingers there half the time. But as far as this feeling strained in any way, no.

I will say that I do this with my thumb on top of the neck. It’s not gripping anything, it’s just a hanger. All the weight of the arm hangs on it, so no muscluar force is needed anywhere in my arm to hang there. The fingers barely apply any pressure to the fretboard. The movements aren’t small and don’t look cool like the small motions type fretting you see from Holdsworth fans. But I can tell you they feel like basically nothing.

Again, one data point. Just telling you what I do. I would definitely look up Tom’s posts because these are the kinds of issues he has thought a lot about.

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