Am I doing in wrong?
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Here’s a version we can slow down:
Yes, but also No.
The “yes” version
You’re technique looks like it escapes after downstrokes but you’re playing a pattern where we either need a motion that escapes on the upstrokes OR you’d need to start the phrase with an upstroke
The “no” version:
You seem like you have a fast motion but just aren’t taking advantage of it. You’re doing DSX “the right way” but playing the “wrong licks”. Why don’t you try some licks at a similar (or even faster!!!) speed, that only change strings after a downstroke? There are tons of them here:
You may be surprised how “easy” things become when the phrase changes strings in agreement with your picking trajectory.
Great job!
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Thanks. I will find the correct licks to record.
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I tried this lick instead. Thanks.
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Not quite what you need. This still requires lots of changes after upstrokes. You need licks where the first string has an odd number of notes on it, then from there on out you have an even number of notes. Something like this:
I’d bet if you tried that just 1 beat at a time (just 4 notes) and started with a downstroke, trying to play as fast as you can, you’ll get considerably better speed. What you’re doing currently features your pick getting “stuck” on various strings because you’re playing things that someone with an upstroke escape is better suited for. There seems to be this general misconception that the upstroke escape is the “the good one”. It’s not any better or worse than a technique that changes after downstrokes, you just have to know which one you gravitate to and run with it. That’s what all the great players did.
Another thing I suggest you try is this:
Not very musical but it should show you how easy it is to do things that change strings only after downstrokes.
I tried the 2 lbs lick you suggested. I definitely prefer to escape on a downstroke but was trying to learn the upstroke escape since most licks appear to be in this technique.
Gotcha. You’ve got 2 options then:
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Get creative and find ways to play the lick you want that allows you to change strings after downstrokes. One “easy” way is to just start these licks on an “upstroke”. Another way is to strategically use hammer-ons/pull-offs at the places in the lick where the picking doesn’t “work out” the way it should. The people who play stuff that escapes after upstrokes do this. Third way is to just straight up refinger the lick and/or, change a couple notes (you have artistic freedom!!!
) so that it works for escaping after a downstroke. -
Learn a brand new motion. The one you’re doing won’t escape after upstrokes. You’d need your pick to move towards the body of the guitar on downstrokes, and away from it on upstrokes. This is harder than it sounds if you don’t already know how to do it. Learning brand new motions takes time. Ask me how I know lol! If you just like “learning techniques/motions”, proceed. You may want to try something like the gypsy rotational forearm wrist blend. It’s so different from what you’re doing you’d have less of a chance of “reverting” to what you know. Still, this may or may not come naturally to you.
If your goal is to play awesome sounding fast stuff, as soon as possible, with the least amount of work you’ll have to put into it, I’d go with option number 1.
There are countless examples of licks that change strings after downstrokes. Andy Wood, Andy James, John McLaughlin, Al Di Meola, Michael Angelo Batio are just a few names off the top of my head. Most licks they play change strings after down strokes. What type of music are you into? I can probably find you some other examples if you aren’t into those guys. I’ll also recommend that newest seminar that I linked in my other response. That is 100% made of licks that change after downstrokes and 100% of those licks sound awesome
EDIT and sorry I didn’t comment on your last video. That’s great playing. It’s clean, even, and looks relatively easy for you. Compared to your other examples, it’s like I’m seeing 2 different players. And to be clear, the others weren’t “bad” because you’re playing was bad…they were just of the variety that’s impossible to play with a motion like you’ve got. John McLaughlin could not play Eric Johnson’s phrases the same way Eric plays them, and vice versa. 2 Amazing players that have polar opposition pick trajectories. Each, subconsciously, optimized their playing for the technique that came most natural to them.
I’ve heard Troy say that when people can already do a fast motion that “works”, it’s like “having money in the bank”. Someone on here recently compared it to sitting on a pot of gold lol! That’s not overstating at all!
Best of luck!
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Thank you for all the advice. I like all the players you mentioned. I suppose I should watch their interviews/seminars and learn their licks. That would probably be the best option. I would like to get UPX down but it seems I have been trying and hitting my head against the wall by implementing the other mechanic. It’s been frustrating but I think your suggestion of running with what you got is the best solution for the short term.
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Absolutely, but it’s not really my suggestion I’m just parroting what I’ve heard Troy tell about 1000 other people lol! And I’m right there with you. I’ve spent the last 3 years dabbling in different motions. I’m just an hobbyist so for me, “new techniques” === lots of fun. Most people just wanna play music and sound good and the fastest way to get that going is to get good at something. There is this general trend we see of people, just like you, who already have a great motion but they want “the other one”. I got caught in that trap a little, pursuing a USX motion, just like you’re doing. I think I conquered it, but if I had it all to do over again, I would have not done it, and followed the advice I listed above.
Definitely check out all the interview with Andy Wood. One word of caution about him is that he’s also very good at DBX (where all the down and upstrokes escape) and that’s also a different thing entirely. Just concentrate on his “fastest” stuff which typically ends up being DSX, or even trapped (swiping).
Bill Hall is also a good interview. He might be sort of the end game that you’re looking for. He has an excellent DSX that he engages from the elbow (not required, for DSX, just what works for him) but he has also learned a USX motion, which is entirely different from his elbow based DSX motion. So you can always learn more motions. Accepting the one you’re good at and getting to elite level speeds is the best first step though, because then you’ll know what fast/easy playing feels like. Your journey with the new motion should then be easier, because if you encounter anything that feels difficult or stuck, you’ll immediately have a reference point see why that’s just wrong from the get go. Change little things till you get that same “easy” feeling you have with your DSX, then you’ll know you’re on the right track.
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Appreciate all your help. I would imagine some of the players from back in the day just adapted one motion kind of like Yngwie. They probably focused on making music and adjusted a pull off or hammer on to make it work. That’s what I plan to do. Now I just want to build a repertoire of licks to have in the bag.
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