Planting vs DWPS

Hi guys, it’s me again. I want to share with you some thoughts… and once again, sorry for my english )

When I first watched Troy’s videos I was amused by how he attacks the string. Real strike. It wasn’ t the way I do it: I push the string, not strike. Ok, it was interesting for the moment, but then I forgot about it.

Why did I remember it again? Well, I was analysing a problem: differences in DWPS in ascending and descending motion. I know, Troy said that if your technique is correct then it doesn’t really matter whether you play ascending or descending lick. However, while scrolling this forum I found that I’m not the one who has that kind of problem. It took some time to think about it, to analyse everything. And I came to an interesting idea.
I started to watch my playing and compare it with Troy’s playing. What was obviously different is that ‘strike vs pushing’ thing. Could it be the reason of my problem? Well, actually it could.

Let’s say I play descending lick starting from 1st string. I make down-up and my pick is far from 1st string but quite close to 2nd - and that is what I need as a ‘planter’. So I can continue my playing without any problems.

Now, I play ascending lick (from 2nd string). Down-up, and my pick is now moving AWAY of the string I need. Having planting habit I unconciously move my pick to 1st string. So I have to do two movements instead of one.

It’s just an idea, a version. I don’t know if it’s the real reason for me having problems with ascending DWPS. Rick Graham for example is a fan of planting technique and seems like he has no problems with speed. But somehow I feel that for me it could be the reason.

Anyway. Any thoughts?

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When you say “planting”, are you talking about using your pick to stop the vibration of the string you just played? I only do this as a staccato effect on high notes and bends, and it is not something I can do very fast. I don’t think this is how anyone plays when they play at normal speed. The only kind of pick-stopping motion I can do very fast is a rest stroke. The rest stroke comes after the note is played and only at the end of the original pickstroke, with no direction change or string change.

I suggest filming yourself in good lighting and at least 120fps to see what you’re really doing. What you do when you play slowly may be quite different than what you actually do when you play fast.

I believe he’s talking about starting his pickstrokes with the pick already pressed against the target string and pushing through it. In a faster run you could only really do this for the first pickstroke on a string if I’m understanding it correctly

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A rest stroke does that when sweeping because the next note is the same string you are resting on. This can be done fast. I only do this on a single string for the the staccato effect, and it’s not something I can do quickly.

The only way I can imagine doing something like this is by holding the pick really loosely so that the pick does not pluck the string immediately as the hand moves. This is not the same thing as actually stopping the motion and “planting”. If you are legitimately starting and stopping the picking motion at the string contact, I can almost guarantee that is not going to be smooth or efficient.

When I was a more economy-oriented, below-the-strings picker… I used to do this a lot… and it did help a bit for reliability purposes. I remember R. Graham discussing this as well.

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Planting is a technique used in flamenco finger style playing, in which you hit a note, for example G with the index finger (i) and while it is sounding you “plant” the middle finger (m) on the next string so its ready and close to pluck the following note as quick as possible.

If the following note is on the same string as the first one it stops the initial note from sounding making that staccato sound you talk about, but it does not matter because the goal here is to play a super fast line, that is why you are putting your next plucking finger close to the string (plantig, or preparing it). The purpose of the technique is to shorten the time it takes to your finger to reach and pluck the next string in a very fast flamenco line.

And in fact Rick Graham has a video talking about this (I just found it yesterday) applied to flat picking but I have never heard about using planting whith a pick apart from that video from Mr, Graham.

Never heard of it for alternate picking but if you search on you tube for flamenco techniques you’ll find many lessons about planting.

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I use term ‘planting’ in the same meaning as Rick does. It means preparing the pick by moving it close to a string you’re going to pluck next. Lets take for example downstroke. With ‘striking’ you move a pick down, reach the string, run through it, and reach the final point - everything in one direction. With ‘planting’ you start with your pick close to the string, run through it, reverse the motion, and move close to the same string.
So when doing tremolo with both techniques you actually make down- up oscillations, but movements are shifted in phase. It’s not a problem on one string. Actually on really high speed there are no differences between that techniques.

I think the Rick Graham planting thing is meant to be a “coaching cue” rather then a technical description of how to pick.

By consciously thinking of getting the pick immediately ready for the next stroke you might help yourself eliminate unwanted/unnecessary motion.

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The fact is I had already had that planting approach when I first watched his videos. So I just borrowed the term

For DWPS there should be no “planting” (rest stroke) on the Upstroke. This planting technique is useful for Economy/Sweep picking because it is a trapped pickstroke which is exactly the opposite of what you need for alternate picking; where you want the pickstroke to be escaped and above the plane of the string in order to change strings.

Now DWPS incorpaorated ascending sweeps so there can be rest strokes on the downstrokes but I would just focus on the linear “in and out” motion of the pickstoke making sure that the Upstroke escapes, and that the Downstroke is trapped.