Hey Folks,
don´t know if this question has been already posted here but i didn´t find it.
If I´m a downward pickslanter and want to change strings after a downstroke (so trapped between two strings) there are three possibilities right?:
a) string hopping -> only efficient if you have a small curve
b) swiping
c) sweeping
Which one of Troys Videos ist specifically about that topic?
Thanks in advance!!
You can swipe (if you like it) or sweep, but otherwise you can avoid that situation by not getting into it in the first place: an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Swiping is a sweep that goes over a muted string that you don’t hear (if I recall) because it is drowned out by the upcoming string, and sweeping is what you already know, except note that for DWPS you can only sweep towards thinner strings. I don’t have a reference to where Troy talks about it.
I believe Troy mentioned this in different videos though there’s no particular video on that specific topic only.
There’s 4th option, actually. Make that last movement (before changing the string) in an escaping manner (add forearm rotation for example). Though this is considered as not very good technique here (because of lack of consistency) I do it sometimes.
Thanks!
Yes as far as I see it, apart from players like Eric Johnson and Yngwie, Swiping seems to be the most used technique among players.
He also mentions Michael Batio for using Two way Pickslanting to avoid that problem
I’d say option A, string hopping, is never an “efficient” solution, it’s just one you may be able to get away with at slower to middle tempos.
@ASTN 's 4th option is really more of a two-way approach - I pick with a dominant upwards slant with escaped downstrokes, but I have some sort of rotational motion I’d unconsciously developed over the years where when I need to escape after an upstroke I kind of rotate my wrist in a motion that always felt like I was sort of “winding up” my picking hand, that had the effect of arcing my usually-buried upstrokes up and over the plane of the string. I actually thought it was an inefficiency when I first saw I was doing it and posted about it here, and once I had a better handle on what was going on I realized I’d been playing DWPS runs with an upwards slant, but using this rotational mechanic to escape on upstrokes, so I was really TWPSing through the run. It’s probably less efficient/more work than just DWPSing runs optimized for DWPS, so I’ve tried to be a little better about being aware of this and sort of “fixing” that rotation in place when I’m doing a lot of 2-note-per-string runs, but at the end of the day it works. 
Anyway, it definitely works, but it’s technically not really DWPS. End of the day though I think whether or not it can cleanly and efficiently play the line you’re trying to play matters way more than what particular bucket you want to classify something in.
Well I guuess so.
Though after I jumped to another string I come back to my usual playing. Thus I ineffectively do two cahnges of ‘slanting’ - one before changing string and one after. While in ‘pure TWPS’ you maintain current slanting unless you need to change it for jumping to another string.
That’s exactly what I do, actually - maintain an UWPS mechanic but do this rotational movement when I need to escape on an upstroke before reverting back to my dominant position. I’ll confess I’ve spent less time with the Michael Angelo Batio stuff than I probably should, but it looks like this is mostly his approach as well, UWPS by default, an added in rotation to do an upwards escape when needed for ascending runs, and swiping on descending runs which I also didn’t even realize I was doing for the longest time.
I had assumed, before really understanding what was going on in my own playing, that TWPS was how you described it, where you were alternating between playing with escaped upstrokes and escaped downstrokes and would change whenever the line required it, but I don’t think there’s really any advantage to that - in my case, if I rotate my wrist to generate an escaped upstroke, then I need to rotate it back before the next time I need an escaped downstroke, and unless something about the line means I’m going to need several escaped upstrokes in a row, then it’s not like I’m really generating any inefficiencies by switching back immediately, vs switching back two notes later (three, including the first note on the new string) when now I need an escaped upstroke.
I don’t know if this is CtC canon or not, but IMO there’s really no need to do more than treat those odd notes out with a two-way mechanic.
I’m in the same boat. If it sounds good - doesn’t matter how you do it.
If I could play everything with legato I would play it. But I can’t, so I have to practice my picking ))
Though after CtC and my experimentaions my playing technique is something I can’t even classify. Bunch of tricks, cheats, techniques which I apply almost randomly. For example I found out that I use sweeping when playing fast descending lines, while all normal people use sweeping in ascending motion ))
Sweeping descending lines makes a lot of sense if you default to escaped downstrokes/upwards escape. I think the reason people tend to sweep ascending lines is that 1) everyone associates the technique with Yngwie, 2) he uses a downwards slant/escaped upstroke orientation, and 3) accordingly, sweeping ascending lines is very easy for him so it’s a big part of his style.
If you picture a mirror image Yngwie (we’ll call him, Eiwgny), then Eiwgny would definitely play lines based around escaped downstrokes and do a lot of swept descending lines.
Yeah, I am UWPS / noPS player. Though some lines I play with DWPS, and even then I tend to change my wrist position to use descending sweeping. Force of habits.
I guess one more reason for ascending sweeps is strumming. Many people start from simple chords and songs on acoustic guitar.
Let’s call him Ewgeny, which is my real name )
I’ve been thinking about string-hoping recently. I played a lot with string-hoping in pre-Ctc era. It’s inefficient, I know. But I can’t get rid of thoughts that my downpicking ability is related to this. For example I tried Master of Puppets, though I’m not big fan of Metallica, and I found out that I can play it with normal speed, though I didn’t practiced MoP before.
‘All downpicking’ is ‘all string-hoping’ after all.
Well, that’s an amazing coincidence. :lol:
I know there’s been a lot of talk about all-downpicked rhythm playing elsewhere around here, I haven’t followed it closely (I’m less of a pure metalhead) but it might be worth a forum search to see if anything about the mechanic really got sorted out in here. Stringhopping seems very unlikely when you consider the speeds something like Master of Puppets or Blackened are played at.
What you are describing is “2wps”. You’re making one alternate picking motion when you’re doing upstroke string changes, which is your USX motion. And when you do the downstroke that changes strings, you’re just making a different alternate picking motion for that, a DSX motion. Then you go back to your USX motion.
Calling this “two way pickslanting” is problematic because you won’t always see what looks like changes in pickslant when certain players do this. However you will definitely see the different picking motion engage, and that’s what really matters.
I see.
I thought 2wps implies keeping last ‘slanting’ (or mechanic… whatever). So basically, 2wps is just when you use two different motions when changing string regardless of other times. Makes sense.
I think that’s what’s going on most of the time. But it’s a complicated world out there. We’re getting much clearer on identifying the motions different players are using. But it’s not clear when it would make sense to use a term like “2wps”. Certainly, some playing styles, especially economy / sweep styles, look that way very obviously. And others, usually more alternate type styles, don’t, even though a similar thing may be happening in terms of mixing different escape types. When in doubt, just look at the motions and describe those, for clarity.