Practice tone chain, valve SPL vs digital latency & compression

Gear
#1

Had a couple of questions about how folks here tackle these issues for daily practice.

  • Sound pressure levels (SPL) become an issue running a valve amp hot.
    I’ve had good results using a BEOD into a clean amp, but it’s like bringing a nuke to a fist fight.

  • Digital stuff adds latency and compression.

    I’ve tried every damn thing including a Kemper for years, always though the unit was doing more than I was putting in, felt like I was cheating and over time I realised it’s not the best investment since I’m not making money off music, this thing was a computer and already had a logic board crap out on me, sold it, I figured I’d stick to my Dr.Z amp setup and analog pedals as they’d potentially outlast a few generations of Kempers in the least.

  • Portability and practicality became an issue as I was also travelling. So I got a VOX AmpPlug2 Lead which I would use into a Bose Soundlink II bluetooth speaker. Was OK till I realised the Freidman BEOD was even better into the ampPlug’s clean channel.
    After a while I thought this setup was a bit cumbersome, specially now that the Katana Mini reviews were all claiming impossible things, so I got one. Was fun initially straight in, specially when I realised that damned Bose speaker was adding latency, my playing was cleaner and faster, and the amp does have a surprisingly nice clean channel played clean!
    It took me 48 hours to realise the “brown” channel was rubbish with a YJM strat, so in went in my trusty BEOD into the front on the katana’s clean channel, was OK but I couldn’t dial out the top end fizz, and the crunch and brown channel reacted regrettably with uncontrollable flatulence.
    In retrospect my tone with the Vox amp plug was interestingly a lot better, my conclusion to this puzzle was a the YJM SD Fury strat -> BEOD -> Vox AmpPlug2 (green channel: drive:2, tone:2, vol: to tase) -> Katana mini’s AUX input.
    One other thing I figured rather accidentally is that cheap batteries sound better than the longer lasting alkaline type. I’m running the katana mini with an adapter, the Vox amp plug needs batteries. There’s a harsh top end the amp plug would develop, I don’t have a volt meter here, but I suspect it’s like running the BEOD with 18V instead of 9V for example, it’s adds some high end specially into a bright clean channel amp.

So that’s my experience keeping the SPL, Cost, Latency and foot print down.

As always I’m a fiddler, I can’t help think about how I could replace all this with a boss GT100, type of device. My worry more than anything is if there will be a mandatory latency tax, this YJM stuff is pretty on the edge for me and latency would hurt, a lot. Would love to know from folks using floor board processors like Helix/GT100 if anybody notices the latency going back and forth between the digital setup and analog amp gear?

How are you guys practicing at home while trying to keep the SPLs low, latency non existent and decent tone with some practicality?

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1 Like
#2

How much latency are we talking about?

#3

I think in logic X I’m seeing around 6 to 8ms, depending on what’s loaded could go higher. I don’t have my sound card with me at the moment so I can’t give an exact number.

For me it’s the perceived difference when I go between all analog and the computer based setup. My playing is much cleaner and quicker. I understand professionals on stage have to deal with latency and other monitoring issues even with analog gear, while I’m no professional is this something one should to try to live with?

#4

What’s your audio interface?

I like to do Amp->Loadbox->Interface->DAW->Monitors (or even headphones) when I want cranked amp sounds at lower volumes, but I need my interface set for 1ms latency (certainly can’t have it anywhere above 5) to keep things manageable.

#5

Using a UA Twin Duo on MacOS Logic X with Thunderbolt 1. It’s a 15" retina MPB with i7, 16GB RAM, 512 SSD, early 2013, with a new battery. I’m getting an effective latency around 8ms using S-Gear. I’ve got my BEOD into the guitar input and in S-Gear the Amp simulation is off, only using the Cab simulator and mild delay.

1ms is great, what interface is that? I’ve set my sample size to the lowest 32, and 44.1 @ 24 bit iirc.

#6

It’s a Focusrite 18i8.

#7

Just read on the UAD forum the latency is close to 5 using native plugins, and more using 3rd party plugins like s-gear. It’s amazing how many companies don’t publish round trip latency figures, seem like Avid and Focusrite are the only ones publishing this info.

The 18i8 has round-trip latency as low as 2.74 ms according to their official site, good choice there! I think my old RME Babyface was around that, to think I was upgrading :frowning:

#8

I guess all we can be sure about is, if you notice it, it’s too much.

1 Like
#9

That’s a good way of putting it; I’m a software dev; I always remember Michael Abrash’s definition of fast, if it’s not instantaneous to the user it’s not fast enough.

#10

Helix user here. Helix takes some tweaking to get great sound but there are some good tutorials out there. It’s very fast with headphones, plugged into a power amp+cab and when plugged into a DAW via USB it’s the only digital solution without latency that I’ve used.

Helix Native on the other hand will depend on the interface you’re using. So if you’re happy with the Focusrite or RME stuff then it’s probably fine. My Focusrite 2i4 (1st gen) had too much latency with Helix Native, so I just hook up the pedalboard direct and have zero issues.

1 Like
#11

Nice! I didn’t realise the helix had that capability.

The new foucusrite gear has really improved their latency numbers and a reasonable cost too.

Digital is getting better all the time it seems! I’ll have to rethink my assumptions now :smiley: