Primary DWPS and elbow mechanics

Playing Technique
#1

Hi from Spain,

My picking movement is achieved mainly through an elbow mechanics that looks
similar to Rusty Cooley’s (when he plays at fast tempos). So far I’ve been using
DWPS with good results although I feel a lot of tension in the triceps and the in
the back of the neck, maybe it is because I kind of lock my wrist. I’ve also noticed
that it is harder to mute unused strings using elbow + DWPS.

One thing I’ve realized is that elbow pickers use mainly UWPS (actually I cannot think
about a good example of primary DWPS + elbow). My questions are:
Am I going against “body mechanics” trying DWPS + elbow? Are there good examples
of elbow + DWPS? Should I switch to UWPS? Should I switch to forearm rotation for DWPS?
What are your thoughts about this?

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#2

Hi there!
I used to be mostly UWPS with elbow mechanics, and I’m now learning DWPS and 2wayPS. I also found that forearm rotation works better with DWPS (and it is way more relaxed!), although at the moment the whole thing is still under construction :slight_smile:

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#3

One thing that confused me years ago was that I tried to imitate some elbow pickers and couldn’t make it work because it never occured to me try upward pickslanting. That is, I couldn’t even get to the stage of saying “I can do this, but maybe it’s too tense.” As a result of that, and many other factors, I shaped into a forearm-rotation DWPS guy.

I share your observation that is seems like just about all high-level elbow guys lean mostly on UWPS. While I don’t spend a ton of time working on elbow UWPS, I like the idea of having multiple options.

I don’t imagine anyone on the forum is qualified to say whether there’s anything inherently limiting or unhealthy about trying to make DWPS work with an elbow mechanic. Maybe an occupational therapist could explain any specific downsides to that type of movement (if they exist) or at least explain why what you do causes you to feel tension in the back of the neck.

If I were in your shoes, I’d be looking for a way to eliminate excessive tension, whether that meant tweaking my existing mechanic, or experimenting with other mechanics. I want to be able to enjoy the guitar for many more years, and I don’t think a technique that causes me a lot of tension would be compatible with that.

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#4

I asked troy that question on one of the live seminars he had and he kind of showed that it could be done. For me however I kind of use the pad at the base of my thumb as a contact point and I kind of lose that if i switch to DWPS. I have been a UWPS for a long time and never new it till cracking the code came out and i was like No way. I too have the tension thing but have gradually found ways to eliminate most of it. It is definitely something you have to work on. I had to wear the elbow band for a while as well as one of those bret farve elbow socks and still use it from time to time cause it seems to help support the area when your getting into it. The thing is I work on the tension when im doing like tremolo picking on one note and can focus solely on my picking hand. I video myself and find when im getting tight and just kind of tell myself to loosen up while maintaining speed. I do it mostly without a metronome cause the focus is purely on moving the pick as fast as you can back and forth and gradually speed up then back off then speed up then back off. after a couple of minutes go to the metronome and start at like 50 bpm and do tremol sixes with the same movements you used going fast and work it up. You should find that you are more relaxed now.

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#5

As someone who picks their fastest with the elbow jiggle, and with UWPS, I can’t make the same thing happen with DWPS. Cocking my wrist back (putting it into an UWPS position) allows me to engage my brachioradialis, which is a main muscle in the jiggle picking, along with the triceps.

Some call it hyper picking. I’m sticking with jiggle!

Anyway, with my wrist back, I can also have a solid anchor point on the guitar with the heel of my hand. This point of contact acts as a pivot point which helps me to control the jiggle. DWPS eliminates this point of contact for me, and I can’t achieve the jiggle picking.

You can get really damn fast without the elbow style of picking. However, if you DO want to hit speeds of 250 BPM plus, you may want to experiment with the UWPS and picking from the elbow while using the heel of your hand as an anchor point. It works for me.

Troy once shared a lesson I made demonstrating how I do it:

As far as this technique being bad for you and causing damage, sure. It CAN, but it does not have to. If you do this for too long and too often, you’ll definitely get some elbow pain. Pushing your physical limitations can do that to you. But, hey, it’s much safer than doing meth!

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#6

I’m no John Taylor, but I take pride in being able to pick pretty darn fast with forearm rotation DWPS. Yet even as a long-time forearm rotation guy, I can definitely pick faster with UWPS and elbow jiggle, at least when I switch into a separate, higher gear of elbow jiggle where I can pick “even faster” than my “regular” elbow jiggle, but with much less control (maybe this matches the “hyper” elbow thing I first heard mentioned in Troy’s analysis of Rusty Cooley). So I definitely agree that as fast as forearm rotation can be, I think the maximum possible speed with the elbow jiggle is faster.

Mind you, it doesn’t take a ton of fretting-hand complexity to throw off my synchronization even at my top forearm rotation picking speed, so I don’t stress about my rotation vs jiggle “speed gap” much. :smiley:

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#7

I have to agree with you in terms of muting strings while DWPS. I started out being a only UWPS and muting came naturally with that technique. Now that I’m learning two-way slanting, I’ve started to turn my focus to learning how to play strictly DWPS. The speed is getting better, however, I’m noticing I have a tough time muting the Low and High e strings sometimes, especially when playing at higher speeds.

#8

On terminology, I’ve also heard people refer to the elbow jiggle as “spastic arm twitch” picking. But I think “Achieve the jiggle” would make for a catchier bumper sticker. :stuck_out_tongue:

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#9

Completely agree! It does limit what you can do with your fretting hand though. At least, that’s been my experience.

#10

I want this guy on the bumper sticker:

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#11

Ha! I’d say that’s possibly my favorite episode. Definitely top 3.

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#12

Without a doubt top 3.

#13

I used to play the same way too, for 30 years. To fully implement DWPS, I think it’s pretty much necessary to learn the rotational mechanic of pronation and supination. When I first tried using this, it felt unholy unnatural. Like trying to pick with the plectrum glued to the end of a 6 ft broomstick. After about 2 weeks though I started to get the hang of it, and I think it’s opened up a huge window of technical opportunity. The more tools in your bag, the more you have to work with to facilitate your music.

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