Primary motion question

Playing Technique
#1

I have a question about primary motion, and what I should be practicing.
As background, the picking technique I learned and practiced for decades was based on strict alternate picking with the downbeat always starting with a downward pickstroke. I developed an inefficient stringhopping technique, and didn’t realize it, and now it is well ingrained into my picking patterns.

My default smooth tremolo motion is close to a DSX motion, anchoring at the thumb side of my palm. It is 2-o’clock wrist motion, but at high speeds forearm motion also creeps in.

Since I feel most comfortable using a downstroke on the downbeat, I have been trying to learn some downward pickslanting technique. For example, a 2 note per string pentatonic starting with a downstroke with USX motion. It’s great a slow speeds, but at higher speeds the stringhopping motion kicks in and I hit a speed limit. If I try this starting with an upstoke and DSX motion, it feels totally wrong and I also hit a similar speed limit.

I spent quite a bit of time working on some DSX exercises, like the Gilbert sixes. It would still fall apart around 140 bpm and stringhopping would kick in, but after lots of practice I have reduced the stringhopping and can play them around 180bpm now. Still not very fast, but at least there has been improvement.

So, I’m wondering, should just give up on learning downward pickslanting & USX technique since it doesn’t seem to be my default motion? Should I just focus on DSX and learn to play the even note per string licks starting with an upstroke (which feels totally wrong to me)?

I think my ideal goal would be to have an efficient double escape technique, but I’m having a really hard time getting rid of my default stringhopping motions.

1 Like
#2

I say to focus on what’s working and exploit the DSX potential as much as you can, and as a side project work on a USX tremolo - no licks or anything like that, just see if you can get a tremolo going here and there. If you can’t get at least a medium fast tremolo going, no licks will work.

In my own experience as a primarily DSX guy who has learned some amount of USX, it’s the upstroke portion of the USX tremolo that is the problem. It uses some different group of muscles to get an escaped upstroke than it does trapped, and if you tell your brain “do an upstroke”, the hand just won’t go the right way. Constant monitoring to make sure the pick is going along the correct path, and pushing the speed while the motion stays totally correct is the only way I know of to learn this.

1 Like
#3

What’s your max tempo on single string lines ala Yngwie? I think before you start getting too focused on string crossing, see if you can get your primary motion (DSX or otherwise) cooking on some single string phrases in the 180 bpm 16th note range for a bar or two. this will do two things: firstly, it will ensure your primary motion can actually go fast, and second, it will allow you to start learning how to chunk properly to coordinate your hands.

1 Like
#4

Hey :wave:! I think I have the same primary motion, and I’ve started my journey toward downward pick slanting and USX escape too, trying to “reset” my brain and my hands.

What’s working to me is to use forehand rotation instead of a wirst or elbow movements: I can get a decent tremolo and finally some speed on 2nps descending patterns.

For some reason I struggle on 2nps ascending patterns, but the main struggle is caused by the right hand pinky: with upward pickslanting is naturally away from the body, while with the downward one it touches the strings below the one I’m playing!

Some player suggest to lift it (but it makes my hand pretty stiff), some other hides it under the strings (better but the hand is not floating freely)!!
I really want to play with a “closed” hand approach but this issue of touching the string is blocking me a lot.

For instance look at this picture and check the position of the pinky finger. To me is really odd even if I’m learning to do the same.
marty-vs-joscho-1024x576|690x388

So, at the moment I’m really struggling with the right hand “shape” and positioning, also depending on the guitar model: in some case I can’t avoid to touch the volume pot without lifting the pinky (try on a steinberger spirit).

I don’t know if you are struggling with this issue too!

#5

Mattias, wrapping the pinky under strings seems really weird to me and seems like it would limit playing across the strings. I do like to rest my pinky on the pickguard, but I have been working on keeping it curled up into a relaxed fist, and resting the pinky side of my palm on the bridge.

It’s not clear in the photos, are you resting your palm on the bridge? If you are doing a forearm rotation, I assume that it isn’t resting on the bridge, right? I see some great players who play that way, but without either my palm or pinky resting on the guitar I lose that depth gauge and smoothness.

#6

The image Is take from the troygrady website itself:

There are a lot of images in which the pinky and annular are curled but touching the first string. It can be convenient because your a “stopping” it and avoiding unwanted noise but depending on the guitar model I have the volume pot as obstacle (my hand is pretty big with long fingers).

Regarding the palm it forms a diagonal is not parallel to the bridge: one part lays on the bridge so I’m not stopping the string I’m playing, another part lays on the string so it’s stopping the string below the one I’m playing.

Probably it’s better if I make some video/pic :slight_smile: