Question about gallop picking and everyday normal rhythm riffs

Technique Critique
#1

Hey guys, hoping I can get some advice on gallop picking. My favorite band is Iron Maiden and their fastest songs hit, I believe, about 170bpm gallop picking. I’m really struggling to get my galloping over 160bpm without lots of extertion/tension/fatigue.

So, what I’ve come to understand about my playing is that when I’m playing gallop picking, or to be honest any palm muting, or kinda just any riffing in general (stuff that’s not insanely fast, just normal everyday rock/metal riffs), I am very clearly a downward pickslanter with an upstroke escape (using wrist).

However! After quite a bit of experimentation with tremolo picking, it’s clear to me that my speediest picking comes from upward pickslant, downstroke escape (Andy Wood, Al Di Meola). It’s much smoother and much faster (and easier) to do this motion for me while tremolo picking.

Is it even possible to gallop or do any palm muting stuff with an UPS and DSX? It seems… like it’s just not really possible. At least for me, I am kinda resting my thumb pad on the bridge area, but it’s not enough flesh to be able to do a proper palm muting. When picking in this fashion, the pick is moving away from the flesh contacting the bridge, such that if I want to pick the D string, my thumb-pad-flesh will only ever be able to mute the low E string, maybe the A string if I twist a bit awkwardly.

By contrast, with DPS and USX, I can basically lay the entirety of the pinky side of my palm across the bridge to achieve palm muting.

When you guys are gallop picking, or just riffing around in general playing not-speedy-solos, more rhythm type stuff, do you still try to do any sort of pickslant? Or do you just not even think about it and play whatever is natural? Is the focused and intentional pickslanting really moreso just to be used for speedy playing, and not your average every day stuff?

[edit] Also, as a small aside, I’m experimenting and trying to incorporate UPS USX into my playing, but I find doing Pentatonic, or any even note-per-string patterns, very, very weird to start on an upstroke :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: 3NPS feels great though!

Conversely, doing DPS USX, starting Pentatonic (any even-note-per-string) feels natural. 3NPS in this fashion, starting on an upstroke, feels fine too, but not as smooth fast as UPS USX.

#2

I think the best course of action is to post a short video where you demonstrate the problem, we’ll take a look :slight_smile:

1 Like
#3

Hey tommo, thank you for the reply. It’s not really that I’m having any problems, so to speak. I guess my post just boils down to, if a person is an upward pickslant, downstroke escape, wrist player, is it actually possible to palm mute while doing that? And should a person try to achieve that motion in everyday playing, like hypothetically if I was playing the rhythm guitar part of Enter Sandman.

I can also post a video as well, if you still think that would be helpful.

Thank you!

#4

@ts8lemonade something that you can also do is develop a rhythm technique as well as a lead one. That’s the only way I can reconcile both hard metal rhythms, and hard lead lines.

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#5

Al Di Meola is a famous example of a DSX wrist player who does a lot of palm muting, so it’s definitely possible :slight_smile:

But more generally, the reason why I/we always end up asking for a video is that it’s very difficult to identify what is holding a player’s back just from a textual description. Additionally, it’s very difficult for a player to evaluate their own technique objectively (this includes me and many others by the way :slight_smile: ), so the textual description can often be misleading and we may end up giving useless advice!

#6

tommo, I understand. Thank you for the kind replies. I will try to make a video to demonstrate exactly what I mean.

1 Like
#7

Okay, I have created a couple videos and uploaded them to YouTube. I apologize if the first is a bit lengthy (just under 4min), but I hope I was able to convey my message well enough. I just love playing guitar. I don’t have a lot in my life, and this is something that just brings me so much joy and I just really want to get it right so I can be the best guitar player and musician that I can be.

The second video (43sec) is me playing a little E minor scale exercise thing at 100bpm 16th notes. The first time up and back down I use USX, and the second time up and down I use DSX. Or, at least that’s what I attempted :stuck_out_tongue:

Thank you for all your help, it is very much appreciated.

#8

Thanks for filming these!

I didn’t watch the first video because it’s too long for me to easily locate the playing examples. In general, keep videos short: 1 minute maximum, no narration, just the picking issue. Write all comments in the post itself. Not a problem in this case! Just a note moving forward.

For the second video, this isn’t USX or DSX — it’s stringhopping. You can tell because the pick is bouncing up and down on every note. USX and DSX motions don’t move this way. They move along a straight line, back and forth, except on a diagonal.

Your table tap test results are awesome. You have massive power at your disposal, you’re just not using it yet because you’re not doing any motions that take advantage of it. I recommend choosing one of the motions we teach in the Primer and using the basic form for that. Since your wrist motion tests are high, I recommend trying out the reverse dart setup:

Watch this sequence, perform the basic tests, and then come back with a Technique Critique on the platform, not the forum, and we’ll take a look. Don’t worry, a big performance boost is just around the corner!

In the mean time if you want to see plenty of galloping with wrist technique, we have a great conversation about this in Brendon Small’s interview:

A good portion of this is also on YT and it’s a fun watch. Brendon is an awesome rhythm player and a great guy.

#9

Hey Troy, thank you so much for the reply. I appreciate your response and taking the time.

I will indeed spend more time reviewing the material, and specifically the reverse dart thrower section.

In the mean time, if you did have a spare moment, I have taken a couple clips out of the first video to demonstrate my tremolo (each clip less than 10sec long)

No worries, however, if you do not have the time.

After further reviewing the primer, I will attempt another video in a few days and post a Technique Critique.

Again, thank you very much for your time and information.

#10

Thanks for doing that, but my feedback is the same — with table taps well over 200 you shouldn’t accept anything so far below that. Watch the reverse dart lesson, perform the tests, and see if you can get better performance.

#11

Good post/questions TS8. I’ve posted prior regarding common issues about getting stuck on upstrokes, can especially common with galloping. I think you describe it well using the slant and escape designators, much better than I could describe. I can try to elaborate - I was always naturally a UPS pick holder. On upstrokes, especially with fast playing, gallops, etc. I’d constantly get stuck. What I figured out a long time ago was the reason for this is I was trying to essentially use the same trajectory as the downstroke and I’m just pulling the string toward the guitar body with no release point. I guess my downstroke was an upward pick slant downward escape type motion but on the upstroke I’d still have an upward pick slant and instead of an escape type of motion, I’d just pull the string toward the guitar body with no release point. When I changed the upward motion to an actual escape, more of an upward and outward trajectory, I quit getting stuck. Gallops rivaling Slayer, etc. I think the reason for the botched trajectory and so many beginners experiencing this issue is that it’s a very natural approach, but doesn’t work very well. Learning to modify that requires quite a bit of conscious effort to change what you want to do naturally. Hopefully that description makes sense and may help.