Recording At Concerts

General Music Discussion
#21

It depends on the person. I know that some people feel very attached to there cell phones. There are some, nobody specific I can think of, but nevertheless I am sure there are some who feel helpless and afraid if they don;t have their cellphones with them at all times. With those types, you;re right. telling them they can’t bring their cellphones to a venue isn’t going to fly. Bu those people aren;t everybody. There are plenty of people who grew up in the era when I grew up and when we went to a concert, we went without a phone. Cell phones hadn’t even been invented. Of all my friends who went to as many or more concerts than I did, I honestly can’t even name a single situation where something seriously bad happened to one of them on the night of a concert which could have been prevented with a cellphone, had cellphones existed.

For people like us, who grew up when we did, telling us we can’t bring cellphones to a concert certainly would fly. My attitude towards going to a concert without a phone is: I did it before and I can do it again!

I have thought of an alternative, however. I understand that there are such things as disposable cell phones which do nothing but make phone calls, they don;t take pictures or record audio and because of that, they’re very affordable. An avid concert goer could buy one of those as his “concert phone” and that would solve the whole problem. Suppose it costs $25. If they bring it to 10 concerts, that breaks down to an extra cost of only $2.50 per concert to have a phone with them and I think they’d find that very reasonable.

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#22

I think you’re mischaracterizing what I’m saying. I don’t think it’s a matter of people being “so attached to their cell phones” that they won’t leave them at home, I think it’s the fact that, well, first, cell phones have revolutionized modern communication so it IS a pain in the neck to try to coordinate with other people without one, because we as a society have become accustomed to making plans on the fly rather than “ok, everyone meet at the beer stand outside of section C at 6:45,” and two, that a cell phone is more than a way to call people that happens to also let you record video - it’s a means of payment, a means of transportation, a means of storing and retrieving information, and a means of communicaton. Saying venues should ban cell phones is imposing a barrier not radically dissimilar from banning wallets. I don’t think that’s a reasonable thing for a venue to ask.

Venues can, and do, go after people they see filming on their phones if the artist has specifically forbidden that, but a total ban on cell phones is too draconian, not just for the impact inside the show, but for before and after, and going to and from the venue.

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#23

Oops, I seriously didn’t think I was mischaracterizing what you were saying, and a lot of the things you just stated are what I meant by “attached”. The internet, unfortunately can be a crude instrument for having a discussion because it leaves out the nuances of an actual conversation where we have non-verbal cues to guide our interpretation of other people’s messages. I’m sorry that my post came across as mischaracterizing you. I genuinely enjoy the discussion we’ve been having even though we only agree on a little bit in this thread (other than the rather off topic love of hiking in New Hampshire, ha ha).

In hindsight I would have used a different word than “attached.” Would “accustomed” have been more accurate? The point I was trying to get across is actually pretty similar to what you just expressed. If I’m now understanding you correctly, I would have phrased it this way: "People have become so accustomed to having their cellphones with them whenever they go out that to ask them to not bring them not a concert would be perceived as an unreasonable burden to some people. Not to me, because as I said I went to many, many concerts before cell phones existed and my attitude is “If I did it before I can certainly do it again.” Whereas your point seems to be you did it before and could do it again (regarding going to concerts without a cellphone), but you wouldn’t want to and feel that it would impose an unreasonable burden on you to not be allowed to bring your cell phone into the concert. Is that a fair way of characterizing our differences in opinion on this subject?

As I stated in my previous post, it’s up to the artist whether or not to allow recording devices of any kind into their concerts as well as cameras of any kind, which is why I like my idea of “the concert phone” which would be a very inexpensive disposable cell phone with no recording or picture taking capabilities. Of course those would be allowed in by every artist even though artists would vary on whether the more advanced cellphones are allowed - the ones that do take pictures and record audio and video.

How many people an artist believes would refuse to attend their concerts if cell phones with recording abilities were barred would obviously influence that artist’s decision in what rules he or she puts into effect for heir concerts regarding cellphones. Naturally the more of an artist’s fans that artist feels has my attitude as opposed to you attitude would influence the rules they ultimately decide to use. I don;t think any artist would bar cellphones with recording capabilities if they believe that 50 percent of their fans have an attitude similar to your regarding this subject. If they think 90 percent have an attitude more similar to mine, including those who would go to their shows and leave their cellphones behind, somewhat grudgingly, then they would be likely to ba recording devices of any kind from their concerts because of some of the aforementioned reasons artists tend to not like recording devices allowed in the venue, including the way Scott Henderson and Pat Mehteny feel about the way being recorded by fans makes them hesitant to take artistic risks. If we as fans do something to inhibit the artist’s willingness to take artistic risks then in a very real way, wwe would be cheating ourselves out of seeing the best possible performances by the artists we love!

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#24

I mean, at the end of the day here, anyone who feels this is the answer is welcome to try, but I don’t think it’d go over well, and I personally consider this an unreasonable restriction.

I think enforcement and not prohibition is the answer here - by the same token, no one has ever stopped me from walking into a gym locker room carrying my phone, but I could just as easily be photographing and filming people walking around in there. The reason they don’t is it’s pretty clear if someone were ever to do that, they would get thrown out, probably barred from ever coming back, and likely face criminal charges.

#25

Ultimately it’s up to the artists. When you walk into the arena you’re walking into what is their house for the next few hours. Would it go over well? I think ti depends on how you look at it. Artists such as Scott Henderson and Pat Metheny have said that recording inhibits their desire to take artistic chances. So I believe by getting rid of the cell phones which have recording capability (as opposed to my idea for a compromise in which fans could bring “concert phones” into the venue - phones which have no ca,eras or radio and video recording) by getting rid of the high tech phones that record, we’ll see better concerts. It’s hard to put a price on the difference between attending a fairly good concert and attending an astoundingly good concert!

I see nothing unreasonable about leaving my phone at home or in my car during the concert. Getting away from all that BS technology which is ruining our culture in several ways is actually a very positive thing. It ensures that everyone’s attention will be where it should be - on what is happening onstage and not on text messages, recording, and such. I can honestly say that when I went to concerts in the 80s and 90s I never once even worried the tiniest bit that I would be unable to reach during that time So what? I don’t want unnatural distractions during concert I’m paying good many to see! If someone tries to call me during that time and can’t reach me, if it’s important they’ll call me back. Why was I so unconcerned? Part of it has to do with cell phones not yet having been invented yet so I had not had any chance yet to develop the kind of attachment to a phone to where I felt uncomfortable without having a phone with me. I think that’s a tremendously positive thing. Technology s invented to serve us - not for us to serve it or for us to be at its mercy. If it ever got to the point where I felt like I couldn;t be without a phone at a concert, the technology would no longer by serving me - I would be serving it! In a very real sense, the technology would have become my master. That’s a HIGHLY undesirable situation as far as I’m concerned.

In all fairness, if cell phones are allowed but there is competent enforcement keeping people from using their phones for recording the show, and the enforcement makes people who insist on using their phones to leave the concert area of the venue to use their phones and use their phones from an outer hall or whatever where it won’t distract the artists or the audience, that’s fine. Although competent enforcement is a very acceptable compromise to my way of thinking, I wonder how often in situations where the artist is depending on competent enforcement, is the enforcement actually competent as opposed to what percentage of the time does the enforcement fail to stop people from doing things with their phones they shouldn’t be doing? I suspect the level of incompetent enforcement is relatively high, which is why I think the compromise of allowing “concert phones” - phones which do not record or take pictures - into the venue is perhaps the ideal solution to this situation.

#26

I just feel like your opinion here is more “technology and connectivity are bad, and are ruining our culture, so we might as well kick phones out of concerts” than it is a pragmatic discussion of how this would actually work in practice.

Most of the shows I’m going to, I’m going to in downtown Boston, after work. I can’t leave my phone in my car, because I don’t drive to work. In THEORY I could leave my phone at my desk at work, but that means maybe another half hour of doubling back after the show gets out (usually 11pm or so, on a night when I more likely than not have a 6am alarm the next morning for work), and giving up a half hour of sleep isn’t worth going back to my office, for me. Leaving my phone at work overnight also isn’t really an option, partly because on the subway ride into work I’m getting caught up on work email, and partly because, at 11:30 at night, it’s going to likely take me almost an hour to do my usual commute because the trains are running on their late night schedule and not their rush hour one, so normally I just bite the bullet and flag an Uber for the ride home, which requires a phone. Trying to hail a cab in downtown Boston is almost impossible these days, because Uber and Lyft have taken over large chunks of the market share, such that cab drivers don’t really drive around looking for passangers anymore, they instead rely on their OWN apps (or phone calls) to arrange pickups.

I mean, it kind of cascades. Yeah, there’s dangers to being too tied to technology and spend too much time surfing facebook and texting with friends rather than being there “in the moment…” But, you know, people used to say that about newspapers too, back in the 1800s, and our grandparents seem to have turned out ok. I don’t think a general dislike of modern technology is a good reason to ban cell phones from concerts. If you don’t want to have a phone on you at a show, it’s easy enough for you to leave it behind. I don’t think it’s reasonable, fair, or practical to ask everyone else to do it, too, just because you think smart phones are ruining our culture.

#27

I’ve tried to make it clear that the decision belongs to the artists and I’m sure different artists see it different ways. I personally don’t have any part in the decision making process but since I’ve gone to so many concerts without a phone, it would be a small sacrifice to me if I were to attend a concert of a band that doesn’t want anyone bringing recorders into their venue. My feeling is that when I go to see a band I’m stepping into their arena for that night and I abide by their rules. It’s as if I’m a guest in someone’s house and so I abide by their rules when I’m in their house. Recorders were never allowed in concerts in the 80s and 90s anyway so I’m used to it. Back then you couldn’t get away with saying, “Oh, this device does more than just record.” The bottom line is the rule always was “No recording devices of any kind allowed” so if a band today wants to enforce that, I personally don’t mind. It’s a time honored tradition. A few years ago I went to a concert where they confiscated cellphones. I got mine back after the concert. No damage done.