Recording At Concerts

General Music Discussion
#1

You only need to go to YouTube to see example after example of fans at concerts using their cellphones to record part or all of the concert. It used to be that no recording device of any kind was permitted at rock concerts - not even cameras were allowed. Remember how Axl Rose got so upset when security failed to take a fan’s camera away from him that Axl left the stage and apparently a riot nearly ensued? Security used to stop you at the door to the venue and pat you down to make sure you weren’t trying to sneak something in, be it a camera, a tape recorder, a bottle of whiskey, or a weapon.

Why do you suppose it is that so many bands today are allowing people to bring cameras and recording devices into concerts when they used to be so adamantly against it? Do you suppose it’s because album sales and therefore royalties are already so low as to be nearly nonexistent that they figure nothing can make the situation any worse, to even allowing people to record their concerts? Or if not, then why do you suppose so many bands are allowing pictures to be taken at concerts and even video and audio recording of the concerts?

#2

I think it depends on the audience and venue. I worked at a venue where Bob Dylan had us hit people with strobe lights if they used their phones. We were told to remove people on their 3rd try to take pictures or video.

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#3

I like that! That’s a very clever way of dealing with the problem. I’m impressed with Dylan for still touring at his age. He must be into his 70s by now and touring is hard work.

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#4

I saw something recently, I think maybe it was Scott Henderson, talking about cellphone recording? Someone may have even posted it on the forum. He was talking about amateur videographers as discouraging artists from taking creative risks in their shows, because any musical mis-step can be taken out of context and emphasized in an online video. Maybe it was in his “sounding off with Rick Beato”?

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#5

I think the most obvious reason would be that it’s almost impossible! It used to be easier to ban cameras because they were single purpose, easily identifiable devices. Now that everyone’s phone’s a camera…you can’t exactly forbid entry to anyone with a cell phone, it would just be wildly impractical.

Probably a moot point anyway. If you just want to listen to the music, the recorded version always sounds better than an amateur video. People go to concerts mainly for the experience, and a video can’t replicate that, but it might make more people want to attend the next show. So I’d assume the overall impact is mostly positive (or at least neutral) for the artists.

#6

Whatever Puff Daddy’s current stage name is evidently did that a year or two ago for a tour - either had fans check phones or put them inside some sort of enclosure they took with them that wouldn’t unlock until after the show. I haven’t heard much about it since, so I’m curious how the reaction was.

I’m kind of conficted - I don’t really mind it if people around me are snapping the occasional picture, but if someone has their phone up in my line of sight for five minutes to video something, that becomes a little disruptive, and if I was a performer, I’d probably be a little annoyed too. Especially if I was having an off night!

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#7

The first time I heard about something like this was in reference to comedian Dave Chappelle. There’s a story below with more details:

Newer stories about Jack White’s current tour:

and Bruno Mars:

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#8

I really have no problem with this. When I shell out a couple hundred for front row tickets at an area/stadium I don’t want to view it through someone’s phone. Your shitty phone vid is never going to sound good. DON’T DO IT. Pics are okay though.

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#9

It does ruin the experience, tho I’ve used those shitty videos to get good angles on EVH technique a lot…

It might get better if recording glasses get popular.
But ultimately we’re fucked on the privacy front. Very Soon it won’t be crazy to think that annoying fly is actually recording you…

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#10

RE; It being almost impossible, I’ll agree it’s become more difficult than it used to be because the industry stopped monitoring these types of things - specifically the long standing rule that recording devices and cameras of any kind were not allowed. The key phrase there is “of any kind.” I guarantee you that if in the 80s you tried to bring a tape recorder into a Metallica or Guns 'n Roses and you tried to defend it by saying “But my device does more things than just make recordings” you were not getting in with that device. You could go back to your car and put it away or you could go home. The choice was yours. The tickets specifically said “no cameras or recording devices of any kind allowed” so there was no way you were entitled to a refund, whether your recording device just made recordings , whether it also made phone calls, or anything else.

Now since there has been enough time that thy stopped enforcing that rule, the public would have to be re-educated on the concept and that’s always more difficult when you’ve through your own negligence stopped being vigilant about enforcing the rules and the public has started taking for granted that they are allowed to do something that they were never allowed to do before, and for good reason. Most bands wouldn’t want to be recorded on an off-night or have an un-flaterring picture of, say, the lead singer, be publicized, so there was good reason for that rule.

What they’ve have to do now to avoid confusion is to make sure this is printed on the tickets so there is no confusion: “No recording devices, cameras, or cell phones of any kind allowed.” That’s easy to understand and there is no legitimate need for anyone to bring a cell phone into a concert. Whenever I was going to a concert, the question “What if someone would like to give me a phone call” honestly never even crossed my mind. That’d how unimportant it was. If I had thought about it I’d decide “If it’s important they’ll call me back. If it’s not important, who cares.” If in the unlikely event I had to make a phone call, I’d use a pay phone. Some of these venues may not have pay phones in them anymore so they’d have to have a few installed but that’s not exactly going to break their bank.

#11

That’ll never fly. I won’t be calling anyone in a concert - it’s too loud, but I’d want to have my phone on me to, oh, off the top of my head, 1) text friends in other sections, 2) coordinate on the way to the venue where we’re grabbing a drink beforehand, or as the lights come back up for set changes or the end of the night where we’re having a beer afterwards, 3) be accessible in case of family emergencies elsewhere - if my dad were to have a heart attack fifteen minutes after the start of the show, I want to be accessible so I can know to leave, 4) taking an Uber to and from the venue, or checking the bus/subway schedule if I’m going on public transportation, 5) have a way to send a buddy money if one of us picks up food or drinks at the venue, 6) have internet access in case, for example,the artist plays an unexpected cover that I recognize but can’t remember who the original was (this actually happened to me once, watching Ryan Adams cover Round and Round), etc etc etc.

This is only a small assortment of reasons - I could also see parents using the “share location” location with their kids not being cool with a venue barring phones, as another easy example. There is literally no way you’re going to get a venue to enforce a total ban on cell phones, simply because there are too many legitimate reasons for someone to have one.

FWIW, I HAVE seen security at shows crack down on people filming, shining their lights at people they see with their phones in the air, and after repeated violations escorting them out of the building. I think there’s a way to balance it.

#12

Thanks - that’s cool, and that seems like another potential compromise.

#13

If you don’t mind me asking, in what year did you go to your first rock concert? My first was Judas Priest in 1984. I’m glad I grew up before the advent of cellphones. I never abstained from doing something I wanted to do just because I wouldn’t have access to a phone for a few hours, or a few days for that matter. Knowing that I would be inaccessible by phone for a few days when I went camping in Baxter State Park, which is in a very remote area of Maine was never something I even thought about. I’ve been camping other places, but that was the most remote of them all. Sure I knew I would be without a phone, but I can honestly say that fact didn’t bother me in the least. I think it’s good for a man to leave the trappings of modern civilization from time to time and get back to nature. It gives a man a whole new perspective on life. Those forests and those mountains (Climbed Mt Katahdin on both camping trips I took there) have been around for eons and time hasn’t changed those forest or those mountains. They look exactly the way they looked a thousand years ago and God willing, they’ll look exactly the same in another thousand years.

The point I’m making is that rather than looking at leaving the trappings of modern society behind for a few days as a terrible (or even slight inconvenience), I welcomed it! So obviously being without my own phone for a few hours at a concert wasn’t any type of issue to me at all. If I’d absolutely felt compelled to check on friends or family part way through the night, I would have called them using a payphone during the break between the opening band and the headliners.

#14

It’s a cat out the bag situation.
People live with their phones today, taking it away brings anxiety and fear of missing out.

It’s like removing a borg drone from the hive, they go crazy. And sometimes turn into sexy members of your misfit crew lol

#15

Come to think of it, I’ve actually been at concerts where they did that. It was done when I went to see Tori Amos. You had to leave your cell phone in a big box with security before they allowed you in and they returned it to you at the end of the show. Was it a bit of a hassle? Yes, but that’s why I’m in favor of the tickets explicitly printing “No cameras or recording devices of any kind including cell phones allowed.” That way I would have known beforehand and left my phone at home or in my car to avoid the slight hassle of waiting to have my cellphone returned to me. For what it’s worth, I didn’t see so much as one fan refuse to hand over his phone and leave, rather than hand his phone over to security and stay to enjoy the show.

#16

Jeez… mid-90s, maybe? First arena show wasn’t until probably 2001, but I was going to club shows and bar shows long before then. Certainly long before cell phones you could record video on became prevalent.

And I’ve spent my fair share of time way off the grid as well - grew up in the northern Berkshires and hiked all around there in my childhood, and these days spent a lot of time out on my road bike in the middle of nowhere, and have done a lot of hiking up in New Hampshire, Utah, and most recently down in Patagonia, and it’s not like I freak out when I don’t have access to my phone. It IS an extremely useful tool, however, provided you use it AS a tool, and in your other thread you’re talking about declining concert attendance at clubs since the 80s; I think putting up additional barriers to going to a show, especially considering how useful a phone is in getting to and from a show, and meeting up with friends you traveled seperately with, etc, I don’t think banning people from taking their phones to a venue is really a realistic answer here. If you have a no photography or video policy, then by all means enforce it, and those Yondr things are kind of an interesting solution where you can’t access your phone inside the theater, etc, but telling people they can’t bring their phone to a venue isn’t going to fly.

#17

Cool! Was that in the White Mountains by any chance? I did quite a bit of hiking there myself when I was much younger. I climbed Mt Washington and Mt. Lafayette just to name a couple. North Conway is such a beautiful town! I wish I had the money to own a vacation home there - for hiking in the summer and skiing in the winter.

#18

Yeah - done a fair amount of hiking up there, including Washington. Gorgeous area. One of these days I’ll do the Mt. Washington hill climb race, but it’s something like $400 to sign up for that one. Still, only way to bike the access road…

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#19

Yes, it was. I think it’s come up in the discussion that Pat Metheny and Guthrie don’t like it either for the same reason.

It’s always struck me as odd that someone would video an event to supposedly record the experience when in fact they didn’t really have it, because they spent the whole time peering at a little screen.

#20

Then they don;t have to allow it, do they? After all it is up to the artist. Remember how adamant Axl Rose was about nobody bringing cameras into his shows? Other artists may have allowed it but GNR sure didn’t, at least not back then. I’m not sure what their policy was on their most recent tour.

As @Drew pointed out, some people have grown so attached to their cell phones that they might choose to no go to a concert in which they aren’t allowed to ring their cellphones, but that is up to them. An artists has to weight how important it is to them vs. how many less tickets they expect to sell if the tickets strictly specify “No recording devices OF ANY KIND Allowed”!

That strikes me as odd too! Taking a picture is one thing, but that’s quite another thing!

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