RH and LH sync issues

Playing Technique
#5

These will test sync alright. Very, very few people can (from what I have heard) do these really well fast and in sync like Yngwie does. I have been working on a descending circular 4 lick for almost a year - and the sync is one of the hardest parts to it. And it also depends on if you are alternate picking it all. If you use escape notes (pull offs) in combo it makes it a lot easier on the string changes. If you want to alternate pick it all it is pretty hard.

I have done a LOT of slow and fast practice to get it to happen. Very considered and focused. By it takes a lot of work - at least has for me lol

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#6

Nice answer. It’s interesting to see what kind of time folks have to put in. I always assume the elites are at such a high level of skill that it takes very little ingraining.

Another thing I’ve been really trying to find the light at the end of the tunnel with is alternate picking. I’ve never been good at it and since discovering CtC I’ve spent years trying to get efficient with 2nps stuff. But it’s been a very slow process.

On one hand, Troy says if something isn’t in these elite players’ wheelhouse, they don’t do it. Like Eric Johnson doesn’t economy pick or sweep. In the Strunz and Farah video, he said he throws out a lick that doesn’t work.

So sometimes I wonder if I’m wasting my time on alt picking. In a perfect world, I’d be playing like Frank Gambale. Of course he can alternate pick amazingly in addition to his go to sweeping/economy stuff. So I guess I assume if he can alt pick, I should probably work on it too. Idk. I definitely feel I’ve been spinning my wheels with alt picking for years.

It definitely seems like the modern guitar heroes like Tosin, Stephen Taranto, Jason Richardson, Martin Miller, Etc can just do it all effortlessly.

#7

I think the weird issue with sync issues is that I don’t know if you can just floor it like a picking exercise. Im generally okay and sometimes have sync issues, my left hand is def slower than my right hand, but Idk how to break my “sync ceiling” if you will, since you can’t just floor it

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#8

this was my biggest belief to overcome. The best guys arent the best at every little niche technique. Im sure there are a few but most people have what they do best and change the game to fit their style. Its much more liberating this way in my opinion.

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#9

Yea I get it. Some days are better than others for me. Actually the latest youtube video with Bill Hall was quite inspiring because of how free flowing he seems with his technique. He seems kinda like, yea lemme just throw this together and see what works. Not very methodical as we tend to think of practice/technique. Kinda like how Troy has said his “practice” time was very much of the fun, jamming, unguided variety.

So actually I just grabbed the acoustic and started improvising lines with my go to sweeping/economy DSX Gambale-esque technique - and I was having fun exploring all of the possibilities of that very comfortable technique for me. Rather than just drilling pure alt picking stuff that I tend to dread.

As it relates back to sync, I think using my main technique and not forcing some new motion or picking mechanic may be the secret sauce to get both hands working smoothly again. Like maybe I should definitely warm up with that, then progress to more pure alternate picking stuff as I get comfy.

Yeah I think it’s pretty clear from the interviews that the greats have their thing and don’t venture away from that. I think something I’ve been shooting myself in the foot with is trying to adopt different X motions and experimenting with different postures instead of just honing my go to. Andy as far as I know never changes to a supinated USX ala John Petrucci. Why would he when he has this badass DSX thing he’s got going on?

#10

Also forgot to mention - thought of it after I posted - @tommo has a video where he’s doing an excellent circular 4 and it is amazingly synced. Found the thread:

He may be able to give you some good tips on sync for this type of lick.

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#11

@Jburd77 happy to take a look (in fact @Troy and I are currently researching hand sync issues, so you came here at the right time)!

Would you be able to post a couple of representative video examples? One short video per example (about 10 secs of playing), at 60 or even 120fps would be ideal. If you can also include slow motion it would be a plus, otherwise just let us have the original vids in the highest framerate possible and we’ll sort it for you :slight_smile:

Filming instructions attached:

#12

I think the issue MIGHT be pulling your ring and pinky finger too far back away from the strings. A second issue might be practicing meticulously with a metronome at a speed you can handle and only increase the speed when you can play very clean. Definitely practice with various different scales in one speed before increasing the metronome. It can be tedious but that’s what it takes

#13

Just on the sync issues with Yngwie circular fours etc- I have found as you get to the 180 - 190 speed - it is really hard to get the notes not only to sync but also to “ring” correctly. When you slow down and early Yngwie each note is synced and “rings” as if he played the lick at 100 bpm. It is astonishingly accurate. I find I get swipes and choked notes as the speed increases. It is to do with the string changes throwing the licks into sync chaos as this doesn’t seem to affect me on single string stuff as much.

Anyone else struggle with this?

#14

These days we actually recommend speedy attempts from day 1. The lower speeds are simply not representative of high speed mechanics.

Of course this is not to say that metronome practice, and in general slower, more controlled practice, does not have its place. But the idea is that the faster playing is something that should be practiced immediately, alongside the other speeds.

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#15

Sorry for the late reply everyone - I’ve been battling covid :face_with_thermometer:. Definitely not fun but I’m about 85 percent now. Had it for about 7 to 9 days. No symptoms now, just get wore out easily.

Anywho. Here ya go Tommo and others. Starting off medium tempo, then a faster take, then a floor it take. I feel I have the speed. It’s not the issue. I just don’t have sync down. Edit - I’m not sure why I can’t simply embed a YouTube “short” into the post…that’s really annoying

This next video is the part that’s hardest for me. 3nps with economy picking is usually my forté. But for some reason in this lick, it is very difficult. I think because of the pinky hinge (as I call it) to the e string. I am fairly adept at changing between DSX and USX. So thats what’s happening here. I ascend in USX economy, then descend with DSX alt picking. You can also see me replacing the B17 with e12. I just don’t feel I can get that clean at high speed tho.

And finally a slow motion take of me flooring it

I might redo this one to include full speed and slow mo

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#17

I got my two posts confused. I made another about how long it takes folks to learn/master something. We were talking about Alaska by Between the Buried and Me in that post. But the sync issues are still there. I find that second video really shows how difficult that position shift is on the final run. That part, and the pinky hinge on fret 15 really screws with me.

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#18

Hi - I have tried to transcribe the part you are struggling with - looks like you attempt it 2 ways in the video.so I chose the first version.

-----------------------------------17–16–14--------------------------------------------------------
------------------14–16–17-------------------17–16–14–13–14–16–14–13---------------
—13–14–16-----------------------------------------------------------------------------14–13----

This is gnarly! I alternate pick but the sync challenge is the same regardless I think.

I am working on similar tricky turnaround licks at the moment and find them challenging to sync. But am getting better.

I break them down into micro parts and focus on those. I really try to work out where I go off the rails - which can be difficult at speed so I record and slow down to analyse where the sync drops. Even then it sometimes is tricky to evaluate.

This is only me - but I am going right back to very slow, deliberate practice at the moment for this stuff.

Be very interested to see what the CTC forum thinks.

Hope you feel better soon!

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#19

Do you alt pick that whole phrase? I’ve never tried alternate picking it. At speed and when I’m not thinking about it, I can alternate pick the descending 6s pattern at the end of the Technical Difficulties A section fairly reliably, which is 3nps the way I have transcribed it. I assume I must be changing between DSX and USX (2wps) to do that. But for some reason I do that far more reliably when descending as opposed to ascending. So I feel it would be difficult to get this section with 2wps alt picking.

Edit- thanks I am actually feeling close to 100 percent the last day or two.

#20

Yep - alt pick the whole thing. Very similar to you, I can generate plenty of speed with it - it is the sync!

The part where I go off the rails on this one is the first 3 notes of the descending sixes. To get is really smooth that is the part I would need to practice and practice till I got it to sync. The rest of the lick is sounding ok.

Such a nice lick as well - I don’t even know what it is from! Excuse my ignorance - is it Paul Gilbert?

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#21

@Jburd77 maybe there’s a different fingering that would feel more comfortable? I might give it a shot today.

@Interestedoz it’s this:

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#22

Came up with this fingering, not sure if you’d dig it:

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#23

Hey @Jburd77! I sucks you caught Covid, but glad you are getting better!

First comment is that the first video is exactly how I would practice a lick like this one: a couple slow reps, a couple of medium speed reps and then some higher speed reps, repeat whole thing :slight_smile:

Second comment is that the sync is pretty great for most of the lick. The problems seem to occur mostly on the B string after that nasty pinky finger bar, is that correct?

On that B string, currently I’m not 100% sure if I’m hearing a repeated note or just a little offset between the pick attack and the fretting, which creates some short unintentional hammer on/pulloff sounds.

One idea we are currently testing on people is to identify exaclty the note (or notes) that is not played correctly, and see what happens if you start from that note and continue the lick from there.

So you could loop the problematic section of the lick in a way that it will always start at the problematic spot.

Let us know what happens when you try that and / or if this response makes any sense :smiley:

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#24

Are you alternate picking that?? If so that’s badass. I never thought about slowing this down and trying it as an alt picking exercise. How are you at faster tempo on the arpeggios with alternating? Paul is definitely sweeping this. He is a master of that technique.

I think I got my fingering from watching Paul in some videos and maybe from watching some covers. They are in C# standard of course.

Looks like you’re doing 4 notes with a position shift on the G string. I tried that and it feels fairly comfortable when going to the next 2 notes on the B string. So the only thing - you are skipping one note. Looks like you’re jumping from that D# on the B string 16 to the A on the e string fret 17. It goes from B17 to e17 (E to A), which is where my whole problem with the hinge/bar is coming from. I transcribe everything by ear so sometimes I miss things, but after listening to the remix/remaster slowed down on YouTube, you can hear that grouping of 3 notes. So just add a 17th fret to the B string, which will continue his 16th note triplet phrasing.

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#25

I never thought about taking it right on the trouble spot. I just take that one phrase and loop it. Starting right on the hinge/bar on the B and e would be a new idea. And from the position shift from 15 to 14 with the first finger.

So question. On a lick like that with the hinge or bar from B to e, or on the first part where you’re sweeping an Am shape that is usually barred from D to G, do you fully bar that or roll it to keep notes separated? Frank Gambale talks about rolling along his finger. But this is precisely what’s slowing me down. In the first sweep, lifting that rolled bar to the G string to get to the B string tends to cause some slowdown. As it does on the 3nps pattern. I have never tried it as just a regular bar - I always roll or hinge as I call it. I wonder if at high speed the bleed over from the bar would be that noticeable?

Thanks for the reply. Good to know I’m practicing somewhat effectively.