Shawn Lane: similar "patternless" players?

[Pepepicks66]

I went ahead and filed this under “playing technique” since patterns are probably the first (and for most, only) way that guitarists “play fast.”

When I learned that monster line in “Gray Pianos Flying”, I realized that there are very few (maybe none?) repeated patterns, making it not only hard to memorize, but impossible to just “nail this one pattern” and shift it around the fretboard:

Are there any other guitarists that have similar lines? I can think of jazz players with crazy lines but none past 160ish BPM 16th notes, unless in small bursts.

I would also love recommendations for similar Shawn Lane lines from those that are familiar with his work, since I’m not.

It’s still insane to me that he would play lines like this near his max speed.

[joebegly]

I am not the most knowledgeable about Lane. But my understanding of his vocabulary is that it was extremely pattern based. However, it wouldn’t come across that way because he’d weave so many different of these ideas together so quickly it just seemed like a barrage of notes. For example he had what he referred to as “coordinations” of various subdivisions and/or note groupings. Groups of 5’s and 6’s and 9’s and 12’s etc and he’d just deploy them all at (seemingly) random within a phrase.

Edit: another thought I had. @Pepepicks66 your motion handles mixed escapes, Shawn’s did not. Is this your transcription or someone else’s? In either case there is a possibility he used different fingerings and the way it’s presented here could be obscuring more obvious patterns.

[kgk]

I’m not familiar with the song or much of Shawn Lane (although I loved his cover of Purple Haze), but does he always play “Gray Pianos Flying” the same way, or does it change? I wonder if he didn’t memorize it but just improvised something each time? (I have no idea, just asking.) I also recalled that he played the piano much more than guitar, so I was wondering if it was something that he wrote on piano and adopted on the guitar, or if it came out on the guitar.

[Riffdiculous]

This is probably my favorite track Shawn played on - I cued up a particularly nutty part of his solo, but the whole thing is great.

Hooded Strangers

As far as being patternless, like Joe said above, I think he mostly thought in note groupings, and within those you’ll see a lot of linear movement. He also “simplified” things using a single escape technique.

[joebegly]

@Riffdiculous

This is probably my favorite track Shawn played on - I cued up a particularly nutty part of his solo, but the whole thing is great.

That’s insane lol! That guy was a gift. Totally from another planet. Though, it’s cool that we have the inside info on his picking (and fretting) so at least it makes sense how he achieved it. Hyper optimization of everything.

[Pepepicks66]

@joebegly

For example he had what he referred to as “coordinations” of various subdivisions and/or note groupings. Groups of 5’s and 6’s and 9’s and 12’s etc and he’d just deploy them all at (seemingly) random within a phrase.

I’m familiar with some of the patterns in the instructional vids he did, but honestly those sound more like exercises (which they were). In playing he seems to mix them up so well that they’re essentially “one shot” patterns, with maybe repeats using passing notes or skipping notes? Hard to describe.

@joebegly

your motion handles mixed escapes, Shawn’s did not. Is this your transcription or someone else’s? In either case there is a possibility he used different fingerings and the way it’s presented here could be obscuring more obvious patterns.

This is my fingering on a Roy Marchbank transcription; if I recall correctly, there were some one note per string shifts that just seemed too hard for me, so I redid it to minimize them as much as possible (I can only see 4 in the one I made). J Bakerman also posted a transcription, which I’m sure is the most accurate:

@kgk

does he always play “Gray Pianos Flying” the same way, or does it change?

I’m not sure! This version isn’t the same as the album as I recall.

@kgk

I wonder if he didn’t memorize it but just improvised something each time? (I have no idea, just asking.)

Honestly if this was improvised, that’s insane. I feel like improvisationally, patterns are the “cheat” to play fast lines. If he just came up with this on the spot, I would say that’s some next level stuff (which it is, being Shawn Lane).

@kgk

I also recalled that he played the piano much more than guitar, so I was wondering if it was something that he wrote on piano and adopted on the guitar, or if it came out on the guitar.

I remember reading somewhere the same thing, that he was supposedly better on piano than on guitar. I wouldn’t be surprised if he either wrote things on the piano for guitar, or if he just “heard” music in his mind through a piano lens, which he then played on guitar.

@Riffdiculous

I cued up a particularly nutty part of his solo, but the whole thing is great.

This is definitely cool, but no way in hell could I transcribe this lmao.

@Riffdiculous

I think he mostly thought in note groupings, and within those you’ll see a lot of linear movement.

Another thought came to mind, which is maybe he just knew / was more comfortable with way more patterns than the average pro. Obviously not a knock on any of the following, but Petrucci, Gilbert, Malmsteen… they have patterns that they will likely play once per solo if there’s a “fast” line, and the probability of them playing it is almost 100% in an improv environment.

@Riffdiculous

He also “simplified” things using a single escape technique.

I would have to play around with some patterns from the instructional vids again, but I thought he was mixed escape. Or maybe I was playing some of them with a mixed escape?

[joebegly]

@Pepepicks66

I would have to play around with some patterns from the instructional vids again, but I thought he was mixed escape. Or maybe I was playing some of them with a mixed escape?

He’s just like Yngwie in that he could only escape after upstrokes. Anything that didn’t work out would be done with legato or hybrid or some work around. Troy and Tom Gilroy have posted just about everything known about his core technique.

Edit: looking at those tabs you posted I don’t have a great answer lol! That definitely looks mixed escape but my understanding of his motion is that could never do that stuff. I don’t doubt the “pitches” but I am suspicious of the fingerings/slurs.

[Pepepicks66]

@joebegly

I don’t doubt the “pitches” but I am suspicious of the fingerings/slurs.

I just realized that the one I posted of J Bakerman is actually the studio version, or at least that’s what it says? Lol

[Pepepicks66]

Alright, so here’s something I’m gonna try to decipher, unless @JBakerman is up to it. Timestamped at a cool run starting 5:45.

Get You Back (Live)

The cool pattern (I know I said he’s patternless, but this one does repeat lol) at 6:04 is sick, but the finger stretches are much for me.

[astrofreq]

This is super interesting because I feel like I’m in this category (except infinitely less proficient lol). I am not a pattern player at all. I’m not saying I don’t play the same things time and time again (out of habit), but I never reach for patterns. I’m also not saying that improvisation can’t include patterns. We know it can. But solos based heavily on patterns aren’t, in my mind, as improvised. I think my goal as an improviser is to be as ‘in the moment’ as possible. As Pat Metheny says, “Thinking is the opposite of flow.”

My problem is I can’t pick well enough to execute what I want to play in that moment, which sometimes might be fast picking. I’ve learned to cope by doing a LOT of legato, which is cool, but I’m here now hoping to tackle my picking issues. I’m still new at this program, so I’m trying to figure out what technique is going to work for me best and also serve my improvisational nature.

[Riffdiculous]

I’ll have to see if I can dig up the old Chick Corea article “The Myth of Improvisation”, but…

@astrofreq

My problem is I can’t pick well enough to execute what I want to play in that moment, which sometimes might be fast picking.

Here are some relevant thoughts from Shawn.

my favorite Shawn Lane's advice

[astrofreq]

That was a GREAT video! Thank you. I found that article and I’ll check it out for sure.

NOTE: That article NAILS it. Chick can express it far better than I can. For me, it isn’t about playing or not playing something new every moment. That isn’t the goal. It’s more about how I’m being led by the music in that particular moment. With my intermediate (at best) improv skills, that often leads to note choices I’ve done a thousand times. The more I learn, the more different choices can become instinctual.

[Drew]

@Pepepicks66

Honestly if this was improvised, that’s insane. I feel like improvisationally, patterns are the “cheat” to play fast lines. If he just came up with this on the spot, I would say that’s some next level stuff (which it is, being Shawn Lane).

I don’t know if I agree, honestly. I think if there’s any overarching takeaways I’ve learned from CtC it’s that what @joebegly theorized Lane is doing, taking a whole bunch of pattern-based ideas and assembling them in endless permutations on the fly, is probably the “end state” for high level technique.

As a kid I used to think that the point of technical practice was to build the ability to play any series of notes as fast as I wanted to, and that was sort of the overarching theme of my practice. Over the last couple years I’ve been a member here, that’s shifted, and increasingly my practice is driven by "ok, if this is how I pick, what sort of lines SHOULD I be able to play efficiently? Let’s come up with a bunch of motifs based around those principles, and see how I can go about improvising lines by combining them in different ways and shifting through different positions.

Ironically, as a guy who still prefers legato over picked playing, I feel like this has really opened some doors for me and helped me break out of a plateau. But while I can’t pretend to speak authoritatively about Shawn Lane (I think we need to summon @Tom_Gilroy for that), a lot of the other world-class players whose technique we HAVE seen under the microscope, so to speak, around here have excelled by taking a vocabulary of ideas and motifs that are efficient for them, and deploying those.