Thank you again @joebegly for the reply! I am curious as to how are similar problems result in different conclusions. I agree with you that the curved path can’t be helping me. But I also am no expert. The gap between my single string speed and string changing speed is pretty large (115 sextuplets for 3 NPS patterns on my absolute best day vs 150 BPM sextuplet single string) and I’m just trying to figure out how to translate that speed to move across strings. Granted, that’s one of the hardest parts of guitar but if there’s a way to make the path to the promised land any clearer that would be great 
. If the diagnosis is to keep on doing what I’m doing and keep pushing myself then that’s what I’ll do! I’ve never had a problem putting in the work so 
Thank you again for the replies and analysis!
Hey @Hartaj703, @joebegly, sorry for the delay, weekends can be a bit crazy
The shortest answer is that I like a combination of Teemu and Joebegly’s advices: spend some time working on more musical stuff (songs / riffs / licks) using these picking patterns at various speeds, and also try some variations of hand/arm setups and pick grips to see if your feeling of comfort improves.
The slightly longer answer is: I may be wrong but I think Joe’s and your case are actually quite different!
- Joe was working on USX but with a DSX motion mechanic (elbow), so that the high-speed USX string changes were not working as intended (still sounded great, but resulted in the feeling that something was holding you back -IIRC )
- In Hartaj’s case, it seems to me that all string changes are working as intended. Though I acknowledge that your picking is not feeling as good as you’d like.
So let’s talk about the fully trapped trajectories that happen on a single string - I also agree that they sometimes look like a “inverted U” shape - but not for all pickstrokes. Sometimes I even see something that looks like a double escape, e.g. around 5 secs in the latest slo mo video.
Is this inverted U shape a problem? I’m not sure, it could just be the pick climbing up and down the string during fully trapped strokes. Something like this happens in Jorge Strunz’s playing and I don’t think it’s holding him back, it’s just pick & string doing their physics
Futhermore, you are reporting a speed of 150bpm sextuplets on single string tremolo! That’s amazingly fast! I don’t think you could do that if your single string motion was somewhat inefficient. Do you feel discomfort when you are doing that, and what type of discomfort?
So the next question is… why can’t you change strings at your top speed? What exactly happens when you try to do it? Maybe try to film that and we’ll take a look.
…But in the meantime these 115bpm sextuplets can serve you well in a lot of musical scenarios… so I reiterate the suggestion to start playing music with the technique you already have 
Finally, I’ll also tag @Troy just in case he sees something I’m not seeing!
Edit: also found an old practice video of mine where you can see a combination of fully trapped pickstrokes + occasional escapes. I think you can see the “inverted U” shape also here as the pick climbs over the string to go to the other side
This is most certainly correct, thanks for pointing this out. I guess a huge difference is I feel like what I was doing was just a square peg in a round hole. @Hartaj703 is surely on the right track. Good mechanic, good control etc. The similarity I was thinking about is the feeling of limitation at speeds where we shouldn’t feel that way. Also the ‘non-straight’ pick path in both our cases. However…
This is extremely thought provoking.
So I just rewatched the super slow version of my critique video and saw tons of this “C” curve in my own playing too haha! Not sure if it’s apples/oranges but I do know my motion was classed as not smooth. This is a cool learning opportunity. I’d be interested to see what @Troy thinks about this. 2 questions I have that directly pertain to this thread:
- What is it about @Hartaj703’s mechanic that makes his path travel like this and not more of a straight line? I’m sure I’m missing something, but I thought a wrist/forearm blend like he’s using is a recipe for USX. He’s obviously getting USX on the string changes, but what is causing the other notes to have a more trapped trajectory?
- Is there anything with this “C” curve that we should be trying to avoid? Is it ok in general or at least in this instance where the string changes are clean?
I suspect there is always going to be a little of a “C” shape around the string, since the pick must climb over it to get past (the string also moves a bit but not as much). I mean, both you and @Hartaj703 can pick crazy fast, so whatever you are doing must be working well. Also, how would you make the “C” go away? Particularly with elbow motion, there’s not much you can do beyond moving the elbow on its only axis.
In terms of @Hartaj703’s motion, the last two videos displayed a pretty solid DSX motion, almost only wrist (discussed this with Troy as well). EDIT: maybe I’m seeing what I want to see but the DSX example also looks more like a “linear” path.
Hartaj, Could it be that your “primary” motion is actually DSX, and then you use a secondary motion for the upstroke string changes? Was the last example more comfortable than the one with upstroke string changes?
Linking the chapter on primary / secondary motions for completeness
Thanks @tommo, good responses as always.
No I don’t think you’re seeing what you want to see. I noticed/noted that in my critique of his latest. I fully agree it’s more a straight line. Curious what his response is about if this ‘feels’ any better.
Hi @tommo & @joebegly, apologies for the delay! I read through your responses earlier but wanted to make sure I had video before responding!
Thank you for such in depth responses! A lot to go through !
I don’t know if I’d call it discomfort it’s more of just the movement not feeling fluid. Even doing a chromatic run at 170 BPM and above gets that same feeling of being unable to track across the strings in a fluid motion. Maybe that’s just something that comes with time?
It’s interesting to see that “inverted U” shape occurring in your video too. This gives me some hope that I can still get where I want to go with it occurring!
I think answering this question is the one that will help sort this all out. I’m not entirely sure “why” my motion path ends up being this way and what I can do to rectify it without introducing elbow movement or if it even needs to be.
I’ve actually never considered that possibility and now looking at the videos, it does look like a much more straight path to me. It’s really strange to me to think about this because historically speaking changing on upstrokes always felt easier to me. Even earlier in this year it felt more comfortable! I did show Teemu a video of me when I was 17 and he said it looked like I was more of an upward pick slant which does align more with favoring DSX and using a helper for USX (in my case I think I use forearm rotation to USX). (It’s pretty hard to tell from the angle but here’s the video if interested Necrophagist stabwound intro solo - YouTube)
I have a couple of videos for you to review. I’ve been focusing on keeping the pick a lot looser in my hand to avoid tension so there are varying degrees of attack in these clips. The first clip is just me attempting a couple of runs at 200 BPM going 4+4+1 (Slow mo and regular). A lot of takes I notice me missing the final upstroke before going to the next string change. I also see the introduction of swiping to compensate for these missed strokes.
Next video is me taking 3 NPS scale and breaking down the core beat to beat movements @ 200 BPM(1+3, 2+3, 1+3+1)
The 1+3+1 sequence gives me such immense trouble that I can’t even describe it. Getting that last 1 to accent the next beat is so difficult for me and leads to a lot of missed strokes. Very curious to get your diagnosis on all of this!
Once again, thank you so very much for the amount of effort you guys are putting in to help me!
Could it be that you are over-anticipating the string change, making you ‘reach out’ to the next string, when you don’t really need to? Kind like a tiny motocycle rev type motion that interferes with your efficient motion. I wonder if you tried the 4+4+1 in reverse (from D string down to low E), whether you it would mitigate that and maintain a straight line. Might be interesting…
Thank you for filming these, very good angles and lighting as usual! I haven’t had time to look at all the videos in detail yet - in fact it would be helpful if you could make one video per example (e.g. your first 8-second video + slo mo is the prefect length) - so it’s easier to review specific licks etc.
My initial quick impression is that this is roughly the same speed as before (or a bit faster, which is already plenty!), and again I don’t see obvious issues: my advice remains boringly to move away from “academic” exercises and start working on songs where these (or similar) picking patterns are used in various musical ways. You can of course write your own riffs and solos for this purpose
Another good thing about working on songs is that they give you a more “realistic” feel of how fast lines work inside actual music. You rarely find a song which contains 10 repetitions of an ascending scale - typically you have some slower melodies, maybe some bendings and vibrato (vibratos? vibratoes?), and then some fast bits here and there. Or maybe you have a 16th note hard rock riff which is mostly medium speed but also has some fast sextuplet runs connecting the chords. Etc. etc.!
…and it is a challenge in itself to do that one fast repetition in the middle of other rhythms, and / or to connect different types of fast licks - even if you are good at each lick individually. I think you are definitely good enough to move to this stage!
Another note is that I am still curious to see what happens when you try and change strings with your top speed that you mentioned (150bpm sextuplets). Don’t worry about being clean, we just want to see what problems occur (if any!)
Finally, I’m relieved to hear that you don’t feel actual discomfort / pain. Whatever awkwardness you are feeling is not obviously reflected in these videos - overall your picking is looking great! So I would hope that with some time, and with the introduction of more variety in your practice, you will make microscopic adjustments that will make things feel more comfortable. If that won’t be the case… we can take a look again
Yeah sometimes sheer discomfort can occur from doing the same thing over and over again. You might want to ditch this stuff and play some actual music as @tommo suggests and see if a day or three away from it all results in a greater sense of ease.
How cool would it be if we had a thread (or even CtC page) with just gobs of licks/riffs from well known shred standards? Don’t get me wrong, these exist on the platform, but you have to know what to search for and they are scattered. One location would be great. I agree playing exercises gets old. I say that as someone who sometimes goes weeks without playing an actual piece of music haha I don’t know what it is about exercises that makes me and others gravitate towards them. I think at times they can actually do more to hold us back than anything. Actual music is king.
PS: also you are working with Teemu, arguably one of the best teachers on the planet when it comes to electric guitar. Maybe you can ask him for song suggestions, and double check if he agrees with the main points above
Same boat! The above advice applies to myself as well! 
Hi all - just managed to log on and respond to all of these now. Again, thank you very much for taking the time to respond, critique my videos, and solution with me. I am extremely appreciative of it!
Welcome to the party @PickingApprentice! I’m wondering if it’s a mental thing. I missed this comment when I was going through the thread a little bit ago and didn’t pull together the video but can if needed!
@tommo, @joebegly, & @guitarenthusiast
It’s been a REALLY long time since I’ve gone through any actual music to learn/practice. I’ve had the mindset this year along the lines of “when I can play this exercise at this speed then I can go learn the things I want to play!” when in reality I’m just working on these exercises that have little application. Teemu even suggested this earlier in the year but I ended up feeling really technically insufficient (I was dealing with some aches and pains from playing) so we worked on a lot of that throughout the year.
@tommo here is a clip of me performing sextuplets @150 bpm going 6+7 (last note is just to accent).
Thank you again!
This is also great! 150bpm sextuplets is equivalent to 225bpm 16th notes. This is faster than Petrucci in Rock Discipline (where he struggles to hit 216 in the famous chromatic exercise). Most real-world playing is slower than this! I’m not sure what else you need before you start playing music
Ok, not all the reps are perfect, you can tell yourself from the slow motion video, I saw a couple of omitted pickstrokes and something like an unintended sweep.
But - in some repetitions everything happens correctly: see for example 0:41 in the slow motion video, where the string change is flawless. One thing you could try to do is to memorise the feel of the “correct” reps VS the incorrect ones, now that you have all the understanding & filming skills necessary
…but yet again, I wouldn’t waste too much extra time on these academic exercises. You can use these exercises as sanity checks once in a while, but it’s time to move on!
I can fully relate to this, that’s how I practiced for a long time - and it got me stuck for years! Still trying to fight the impulse to work this way. But the reality is most of the great players out there worked on songs more than anything else. There’s just so much to learn from songs that is not covered by “metronome work”.
It happens to me a lot, too. I’ve found this is a really insidious form of procrastination. “I’ll do X when I can do Y” = “X scares/intimidates me and I’d rather distract myself in the meantime.”
Right, and not only that but the metronome aspect can be an uphill battle - you can keep convincing yourself to shoot for another 1 or 5 BPM or whatever and sacrifice the quality of the motions you’ve built, as well as your general tone and phrasing. The latter two are honed better by songs IMO.
Thank you again for your response @tommo! I guess my mindset goes along with what @guitarenthusiast said:
I’ve always believed that I needed to be able to do each exercise perfectly multiple times before moving on to something new. Is it safe to say that I have the mechanics I need to be able to play the things I want to play and that the consistency will come with time? I guess that’s what’s next for me. How do I develop the consistency to be able to up and down six strings at that speed without missed strokes/swipes. As you pointed out, there are a couple of takes in the most recent video where everything happens as intended. How do I develop the ability to do that consistently?
You could try a couple of filming sessions with 2/3 reps, then watch immediately in slo mo and check if there is a clean take in there. If there is, try to remember how it felt compared to the “bad” takes. Maybe, over time, you’ll start to recognise the correct reps by feel, and you’ll know what to shoot for.
I know this is a bit laborious but you are really working at the top end of guitar playing here, so you can’t really micromanage your motions, and there may still be occasional mistakes. You have to memorise the “feel” of correctness as much as possible.
That being said, I can’t really play anything at 225 bpm, so mine is just educated guessing
But please don’t spend the next 3 motnhs doing this 
PS: I also noticed that you are hoping to basically have zero mistakes in your playing (even minor stuff like swiping). That is basically an impossible goal - watch a live performance of your favourite guitarists with a critical eye and you’ll know what I mean!
PS2: I also notice you are a masters in mechanics member. Even better! Go and watch some of the picking close-ups in the interviews, in slow motion and with a critical eye. These are some of the best pickers in the world. Do they never have a swipe or little inaccuracy? And yet would you say they sound bad?
Whoa. That is DEEP. I never equated this with procrastination but it totally is!!!
My mindset with this whole thing is that most shredding, even the ultra tasteful stuff, can be boiled down to just a handful of skills. I guess the thinking is that if I master these skills in a ‘generic sense’ (i.e. an exercise) that I’d someday be able to apply it to dozens of real world playing examples. If I spend the time to learn a solo note for note and master it, I’d be spending all that time on something that wouldn’t necessarily transfer to other solos. So, I guess the thinking is that exercises would have a net result of more solos mastered down the road. And there it is again…‘down the road’ is surely postponing something. Time to live in the now and work on some real solos!
This is really sound advice. I completely agree with the note that you can’t micromanage your motions the faster you get and I think this is the first time in my life where I need to learn what “feels” right rather than it being audibly evident/obvious.
I’ve always felt like I was a mediocre guitar player so watching slow-mo clips of me missing strokes/swiping often gets discouraging and furthers that feeling. A lot of aspects in my life I always felt that if I can do something once I should be able to do it many times. Guitar is one of those things where I find it extremely difficult to develop that consistency and I think I need to come to terms with the fact that if even the greatest guitar players in the world can’t be perfect then I won’t be able to either.
Out of all the feedback/advice I’ve received on this thread, this point definitely has shaped my mind for the future. I’ve spent the majority of my life practicing exercises and not really learning real music. I think it’s time to move onto this step and combine it with everything I’ve learned so far to see where it takes me!
@joebegly, @tommo, @guitarenthusiast, & @PickingApprentice
Thank you all again for the amount of effort you put into helping me! I’m definitely feeling a lot better about my technical capabilities and am looking forward to changing things up. I’m never really an active forum member anywhere but seeing how inquisitive and passionate you all have been has motivated me to stick around and contribute more!
Sorry for the out of topic post, but I had to +1 to that @joebegly.
I seek the exact same thing. Trying to make my own over time, but a openly-contributed source would be gretaly appreciated.