Six Note Pattern very messy

Technique Critique
#21

Hey @DjangoUntrained! I’m happy you got many suggestions of things to try in the meantime - so thanks everyone.

I wanted to add that it would be helpful if you watched /listened to your own videos in slow motion to actually hear what types of sync mistakes you are making. I think it’s important for you to figure out what exactly you are trying to correct and how to hear correct VS incorrect while you are playing. I do not think you’ll need to micromanage your finger motions, they’ll probably sort themselves out as you develop a better awareness of what you are doing / what you sound like.

Of course, if you find yourself stuck we can look again at the details.

FYI analysing your videos more carefully is also on my to do list, later we can compare notes! Just give me a few days as tomorrow we’ll attempt to travel back home from Italy with the 2 small daughters, might take us a couple of days to recover from the stresses of the trip :smiley:

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#22

You’re welcome. :slight_smile: If you think about the effect of tapping the string down, it will only be fretted for a very tiny fraction of a second. This will make it hard to sync as well as cutting the notes short. Legato playing will force you to “stick” longer to get the notes to sound out and should help you see how to add picking in such a way that the notes are fretted longer. But you need to give yourself a bigger time window by fretting the string vs tapping it down and immediately releasing it, and the left-hand fingers have to move first to push the string down and get it fretted. If you start the motions at the exact same time, the pick will win, hence the mental focus on the left hand to correct this. Good luck, and give us an update some day.

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#23

Quick question @DjangoUntrained : is it possible that you are starting the lick on an upstroke - or in other words, that the upstroke is on the beat? (I’m assuming you are placing the beat on the “pinky” note of each group of 6, like YJM does). And if so, were you aware of it?

I was getting very confused trying to sync audio and video in slow motion in final cut (YT always messes up sync), until I realised that this may be the case.

#24

Hi @tommo
Yes, I am starting on an upstroke as I find DSX more natural for tremolo and string changes. I have practiced starting on a downstroke but it makes changing strings very difficult.
Like you suggested, I have been practising starting on the 5th note of the pattern to strengthen the 2nd finger. This seems to help a lot. Also I’m trying to ‘tidy up’ the first finger movement as I think it was a bit sporadic.
I will post a video tomorrow of my progress.

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#25

Hi @tommo
Here is another video. I think there is a small improvement but its far from ideal. I have practised starting on different notes, but have trouble paying it fast without falling back into the original starting point. I think this will improve with practise though, as it has only been a few days.
I think the weakest area is the last 3 notes. As I descend back to my first finger it is not always firmly in place due to me raising it every time i put my pinky down. I have tried keeping it flat on the fretboard throughout, but this feels awkward and like it creates tension in my hand. Trying to resolve this by making smaller movements with my first finger and pinky might be the answer.

Thanks for your response so far :slight_smile:

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#26

Hey @DjangoUntrained I was wondering if this might help you:

It’s a different approach (from a fretting hand perspective) than what you’re doing. BUT sometimes when things won’t work for us, the best thing we can do is try something drastically different :slight_smile:

One main difference is his fretting posture in general. Your fingers are more parallel to the frets, his fingertips are pointing slightly toward the bridge. That could be a guitar positioning/personal preference difference too but it’s worth mentioning as it’s “different” from what you’re doing.

A verbose breakdown of the ‘dance’ his fingers are doing:

1st note:
The pinky and index finger are both down as he picks the note the pinky has fretted
2nd note:
The pinky releases and simply “reveals” the index finger, as it’s already down from the previous step.
3rd note:
The middle finger falls, the index finger doesn’t appear to budge.
4th note:
The pinky lands again. The middle and index fingers from the previous step are still fretted. Though Jeff does not appear to do this, I think if you wanted to release your index finger at any point in this pattern, this is the place to do it. You’ll have 2 more notes before it’s really needed again.
5th note:
The pinky releases and reveals the middle finger. The index is still down.
6th note:
The middle releases and reveals the index finger. As per my comment on the 4th note, if you wanted to lift your index finger in that step, in this final step is where it would fret again.

This type of overall coordination of movements between fingers reminds me of how my classical guitar teacher trained me to do fast arpeggios with the picking hand. For any given pattern, there was a specific point where each finger was to release, pick, or prepare.

Anyway, hope that helps and good luck as you continue to progress on this!

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#27

Thanks @joebegly, that’s very helpful advice.
I like the idea of pick, release and prepare as the states of each finger. I have been working on this idea as I analysed each finger to try and see why I’m not getting a smooth rhythmic feel. I will relook at what I am doing alongside what you have suggested.
Also, I have experimented with fretting hand position before, bit I will try again based on the video.

By the way, Jeff Loomis’s playing is unbelievable! I’ve not heard of him before :confused:

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#28

Hey @DjangoUntrained! I finally had a good chunk of time to analyse your vids in final cut pro.

Now one thing I noticed is that you indeed start the first reps of the pattern with an upstroke, but after a while something happens and it looks like you revert back to downstroke on the beat.

Let me know if you also noticed this, and if I am seeing this correctly :slight_smile: Also, let me know how it goes when you play the pattern deliberately starting on a downstroke (don’t worry about string changes for now).

Another minor detail I noticed is that you appear to struggle more with the descending part of the lick, sync-wise. However, this may be a moot point if we discover that starting on a down solves the sync issues.

Let me know!

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#29

I’m going to go ahead and suggest that what @tommo saw in your clip - that your hand wants to start on a downstroke - is the solution to all of your problems.

Starting ANY single-string-exclusive pattern on an upstroke - whether it be tremolo, gallops, reverse gallops, etc. - is so insanely uncommon that for you to try and reinvent the wheel here is probably not the way to go.

I can honestly say I have never seen even one metal/shred player have an actual preference for that.

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#30

I know one :slight_smile:

And I myself have learned to do a lot of patterns starting on an UP to turn some USX patterns into DSX. Here is a pre-historic video on that :smiley:

EDIT: that being said, I still think that it is a good idea for @DjangoUntrained to try the downstroke version and see if it resolves the issue.

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#31

Oh, no I meant single-string only. Like gallops, tremolo, etc.

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#32

Thanks @tommo for looking at the video.
There is a small improvement when I start on a downstroke which I have been aware of for a while. I concentrated on an upstroke though as I find a DSX movement better for changing strings. As you suggest though, I will concentrate on the single string down motion for a few days. I will post a video soon.
Also, I did notice that the descending part of the pattern is where I trip up as my 2nd finger won’t release quick enough. I will continue to work on this also.

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