Supinated DSX after being pronated for quite a while

Playing Technique
#1

So. I WAS satisfied with my pronated thing and was content exploring it’s capabilities and then I started doing this. I had experimented with trying to do a more supinated/flattened out DSX in my previous DBX, but it never really yielded anything. Now, when I wasn’t paying attention I stumbled onto this. I mean, it’s not a mystery - I know what I am doing to achieve this, but the muscles being activated are, umm… “sleepy”. It’s something new to get used to, and lots of cleanup required here, optimizing and cleaning it up will come in time, but I think this is not a bad starting point, yes? Even number of notes per string. It’s nice to have access to a muting effect/control. Magnet view of some stuff at the end. Any thoughts?

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#3

I think there’s some real potential there! The motion is also pretty close to flat, so perhaps some DBX could ultimately work (though your pick does dive down towards the guitar body after passing the string fairly often, but I think that’s correctable).

Can you get this motion to work using a “normal” grip (trigger, pad-side, whatever)? I’m wondering if changing the grip might iron out that pick-diving thing.

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#4

I was self taught and learned pronated, so also obviously DSX (but had no knowledge of this at the time). I eventually went to a formal teacher, who told me what I was doing was wrong and tried to essentially turn me into a more typical USX picker with a supinated wrist. I was never really able to get comfortable doing that…

Anyway, short story long, the end result is I now naturally pick almost exactly how you are picking here, with maybe a slightly more peonounced pick slant and escape angle. I’m very new to all of this, so I’d be very interested to hear from the more knowledgeable members here if there will be some hard limitations in this form beyond the typical DSX limitations.

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#5

Hey thanks for the replies, guys! I really appreciate it!

@WhammyStarScream I missed your post my man, curious what you wrote!

I agree. Even as it stands, it can do a lot. It’s pretty quick and the clams are pretty correctable right from the beginning. I am going to optimize and refine it though. Get that pick “dive” under control! One thing I am finding is that dialling in the amount of “edge” in my pick makes a pretty profound difference!

Interestingly enough, I do this thing where I kind of press into the guitar body, causes some background tension. Occurs with pretty much every grip I do so if i can get that under control like I did with my pronated form, I think I’ll be okay! My theory is that it’s muscles that I am used to using overcompensating for the clumsiness of the ones I need to use, but am not used to activating. I’ll get there. I think I know what to do.

Not on the menu just yet. If it’s possible later on down the line, or if i stumble across a DBX that’s better than the one I have - then that’s great! :grinning: In the meantime I will focus on single escape vocabulary, and add powerups (hybrid/legato/sweep) as required to compensate for the things I’d like to be able to alternate pick but can’t. I am really just quite ecstatic that I have a DSX form that works with a mute! Cool! I will accept any and all weaknesses that come with it; it does a lot right out of the gate I think!

I am interested - can I see some footage of how you play? Also I am curious about what gives you the most grief in regards to lines as well as success…

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#6

Awesome!

As a possible experiment, consider spending some time with this technique trying to pick as lightly as possible, just grazing the string. That might have a positive impact on the dive/unwanted tension.

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#7

I’ll try to get a video for you soon, I’ve been meaning to do the technique critique anyway.

As for what gives me grief with this motion, it’s still a bit too early to say. Even though pronated DSX was my natural motion when learning myself (I actually initially stumbled across it when learning the instrumental part of One by Metallica), it now feels foreign to me after my old teacher tried to force me to play a more typical supinated USX motion. However even after the 5+ years of trying to develop USX, I never really got the good “dart thrower” motion to make it efficient. Supinated DSX is just what feels fluid for me now.

I’m kind of new to faster picking in general. Up until a month ago, I genuinely believed I just didn’t have it in me, and basically just developed my legato and used that for basically everything. The Pickslanting primer is literally the first thing that I have seen that validates a DSX motion with an UWPS. As soon as I allowed myself to do that again, I was able to tremolo 16ths pretty comfortably around the 220/230 range. Now I can play some single string sixes patterns at around 135ish sextuplets, but am very inconsistent with moving to different strings yet.

I’m noticing shoulder tension, but I think that’s related to just learning how to alternate pick this fast in general, and not related to the actual motion. I think I’d have this tension that I need to fix no matter what motion I landed on. Other than that the huge success I’m seeing seems to be that muting is infinitely easier for me to do using this motion.

EDIT

@Scottulus sorry this is a little rushed, but wanted to get you something quick over lunch. Here is a quick video of my picking motion in tremolo, single string sixes, and a terrible attempt at moving across strings (still getting the hang of that).

After recording, it looks like there are some differences, but the core of our picking motion looks pretty similar to my (admittedly very new and untrained) eye.

#8

100% on that. I think that it is making a difference. We’ll give it a week or so of effort and see if it bears fruit; should be pretty noticeable, obvious improvement in the diving down department I would say, lol!

Great playing man, well done! I think that we are very similar, but a few differences; I use a trailing edge grip, and it looks to me like you have a bit of a forearm rotation going on, maybe a bit of reaching with the thumb? My forearm is attached to the guitar, the motor is coming from the wrist when it’s “right”. I think I revert to elbow without being aware of it at times, (Just watched my video again with fresh eyes, and it for sure has some elbow moments!) so maintaining the motion as a wrist thing is certainly a balancing act and an exercise in awareness! More important than anything else, I am thinking is ensuring that I am indeed doing wrist and not elbow…

I thought it was pretty good, man - certainly well on your way in my opinion, Keep on going, very well done!

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#9

@Scottulus so I just tried this with a trailing edge grip (another thing I used to do naturally that I was told was “wrong “) and I actually think it feels a lot more natural/comfortable in this position, and resulted in a lot more wrist and less elbow/forearm for me. I’m going to keep messing around with this tonight, but the angle my wrist takes with the trailing edge grip seems to unlock something with this form.

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#10

I started out playing with this grip, did it for decades and hooo boy was I ever tired of being told it was wrong! But I didn’t understand what I was doing at the time and tried an overhaul. Kind of wish I hadn’t lkol I tried a pistol grip with elbow for quite a while, but ultimately I reverted back to trailing edge a year or so ago with some coaching from Tom Gilroy. He really helped me get on track with a pretty successful pronated wrist motion. Learn as we go, eh?

Keep me updated on your discoveries, man!