Sweep Help Please

Just a couple of questions:

  1. What are you most trying to improve? The speed, the articulation the string feel or all three?

  2. What do your 3 string or even 4 string sweeps look like? Do you feel like you have an easier time executing those the way you want?

Agreed! Congrats! Even though it’s not 100% ‘there’ yet, that’s amazing progress and now you’ve got what you need to get it to 100% Rock on :metal:

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@Fossegrim All three really. I’d like to get the technique perfect first and foremost. I’m using my ears to guide me rather than how it feels to do. I know how it should sound, and how it looks, but I don’t know how it should feel, and I’ve struggled to get it to sound how I’d like it to.

I’ve really avoided the three string sweeps because a lot of good sweepers say to avoid them when learning the technique (Dean Lamb, Ben Eller, my tutor, to name 3) because they’re cramped and why put hours and hours into learning how to sweep 3 when you can put the same time into learning to sweep 5 or 6, which is more efficient time-wise.
I don’t have a dog in that race, I just do as I’m told, hahaha.

So sweep picking is a technique, just like economy picking where there is a very wide variance to all three of these aspects, and a range of what many would find acceptable, the trick really is trying to find the one that you do. How it feels is important, but is secondary to how it sounds, although the two are very dependent on each other. My guess, from what you have said so far, is that you are trying to get the type of sweep picking that’s sounds more percussive and more separated or rhythmically controlled , than the type that has smoother with slight bleed.

Another thing to point out is that since you have set up your camera angle in such a way. It is a little hard to fully analyze what your strumming hand is doing.

Because they actually can be very useful in developing the technique, and to very gradually and cleanly push your limits. They can also more easily be used to open up more rhythmic deviations than just triplets or sextuplets that are more commonly performed with 5 string arpeggios.

I also used to think that way too, then when I went to college and started taking lessons from a guy named Joe, I began to see the error in this thinking. I realized that while it was easy for me to sweep across 5 strings very fast as kind of a trick, it was hard to rhythmically control sweeping across three, and damn nearly impossible for me to do two string ones (think the break down in the song Rising Force). It forced me to rethink this a bit and take a step back. It all has a place.

Anyway. I’m going to see what I can do to offer my .02 into this and try to touch on some things from my perspective on it, and see if I can throw up a vid and at least a little lick or etude that may help in this.

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There’s also a difference in how to approach sweeps ending on a single note on the last string/first string.

If I sweep a minor arp on the 3 high strings, it’s all DWPS with an escape upstroke hitting the B string and then sweeping down on G B E. I fought this for a long time but it’s really the smoothest way to handle it.

However, a diminished sweep gives you the extra note on the G string and you can change pickslant as you would for the 5 string box shapes.

Then the Down Down Hammer/pulloff upstroke pattern for two string sweeps is the building block Jeff Loomis’ miles of machine type cascading runs are built from. But there’s a different kind of you want a double stroke pattern like George Bellas does with pivot tones which he also calls “2 string sweeping”, really involves you hitting adjacent strings while changing pickslant and is effectively sort of rapidly switching economy picking.

Sorry for such a late response. Just so we are on the same page, are you talking about a sweep sound closer to this. I posted a simple 5 string sweep on this thread a while back, and it popped up again which reminded me that I had something on here that might sound close to what you are describing.

Hard to tell the picking pattern from that, but it seems right. Do you have access to the Teemu interview?
This section shows perfectly the difference

VS

I’ve also been messing with doing reverse Yngwie stuff (using DSX on the same pattern but upside-down, Jason becker has them in the Altitudes solo and in Perpetual burn, probably a bunch of other places).

Then also seeing what happens if I maintain DSX and push through the normal 3 string patterns with my thumb maintaining DSX against the grain of the strings. I was curious if maybe it could result in a smoother tracking with less anchoring because it would work against gravity on the way down and be “with the grain” on the way up. I can try and record an example of messing with that, no idea if it’ll pan out to anything useful though.

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I can post it, It’s more the tonal nuance and attributes of the sweep itself that was at question with the OP. I usually use a light mute.

I sometimes try to do some things using DSX, but I have never thought to try it on sweeping. You have sparked a light bulb moment for me! Thanks for saying this, I wouldve never thought to try this ever.

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The only thing I could say is I use the Joe Stump Arpeggio book for this area, it is the only resource I have on sweep picking. I think its decent, and has helped. But the way the book is structured is it steps up adding strings starting with 2 string then 3 string,4, 5, 6. I think this is a decent way to approach it, don’t get too bogged down, at least get somewhat proficient before adding another string. At least somewhat master 2, then 3, then 4, and especially 5 before moving onto 6. And stick to the easier shaped arpeggios that dont have any barring at first so to let your hands sync better to allow more consciously awared mind for your picking hand.

Sweeping is all about the fretting hand, if you feed your picking hand, even, well fretted, notes, you can just drag the picking hand across with no thought.

My advice to myself and anyone with sweeping is left hand control. It should be your main focus.
It’s not in your picking hand. It’s all in the frets, thats where the coordination is. The picking hand is literary just following the fretting. It sounds too basic, but that is the main issue with sweeps.

You still have to develop speed, finesse and coordination. That is harder to do if you dont build up some foundation to engrain the correct sweeping motion at the speed you desire with easier fretted fingering sweeps, that utilize all the fingers, even the shapes that use the middle finger twice can be a sync hiccup speed bump as will the shapes that include barring. Basically at least building up confidence. But I can agree to an extent, really depends on the skill level of the player. And lets not scare him by adding more notes per string, the ones with the pull off or hammer on notes during the middle of the shape making it even more difficult. :smiley: :worried: :smile:

Good to start with the correct idea though. The correct sweeping motion from my experience is all in the fretting, for example, the simpler your fretting the faster you can go (I think thats what you’re saying), the staircase pattern up n down is one of the simplest. I’m not sure how to show that without recording a video, but anyone with experience should understand, the 4 note pattern going across the strings / and back down \ very easy and the perfect example of the fretting hand doing all the work. You could drag your face across the picking area and get a sweep as long as your fretting is good.

I should have been just a bit more specific, and give an example. The main shape I mean is the 5 string major shape, so I left out the fact that it does use the index finger twice, but this specific instance the index finger should be the most dexterous out of all the fingers.

I find the pull off very akward. I did it on the 12th fret. Thats really hard at the end of the neck. I feel like it is even more in the fretting tho, the lower notes have got a lot more tension

Do you do the 3 string arpeggio patterns? These should come before the 5 string, so you can develop that pull off. I don’t change slant on the upstroke portion. I leave the pick the exact same placement and slant, but I sorta use my index finger to guide my way back up without changing position of anything while naturally let the thumb joint tip bend.

Sorry I’m late. I was practicing. :joy::joy::joy:

Getting the hang of it now.

I will go through the replies shortly.

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Really nice and articulate, it takes time for it to sink into effortless maneuvers. I find the more small etudes, and lick links I can come up with to just fiddle with helps to get them into effortless maneuver territory. This is the zone you need to get them into to really speed them up. Kinda just basically forces you to play them daily without thinking of it like a chore, but at the same time having fun grinding. This video compared to the first is light years better. You might even could back the tempo down just maybe 5-10bpm and work in this zone to burn in the mechanics to feel the relaxation, and still maintain rhythmical control and finesse. I find if I practice when I wake up the best for ingraining new motions into my hands.

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Thanks man! I’m really happy with my progress. It’s a totally different way of playing, so getting that motion to sound fluid is super difficult.
I was pushing the speed on that video. I like 75bpm, that was 80bpm at the end of a practice session, just seeing if I can creep it up a notch, haha.

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Solid progress! Definitely gaining more control now :love_you_gesture:

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