Hey All,
I’ve been a bit guilty myself of derailing this thread but I suggest we don’t turn it into a “betcha can’t play this” sorta thing 
I think the main point of the discussion is to not hold ourselves to unreasonable standards, given that even the best players in history didn’t 100% clear every single string change in their performances
You’re welcome to your doubt or disbelief.
I don’t have any reason to lie or misrepresent myself here.
I worked out the principles of crosspicking and escape movements geometrically as a teenager. I even had a notebook where I calculated the radii of crosspicking arcs and angles of linear escape based upon pick depth.
I was a lonely, depressed teenager. I practiced guitar for hours every day because it distracted me from my misery.
Absolutely. I wrote this in another thread, but I feel it’s relevant here too:
I mean honestly it really depends. I was “Van Halen” ready only after a year of playing. And could play relatively harder techniques at around that time if not with in the two year mark.
But, then I fell victim to the below excerpt, and stayed where I was at for a while afterwards because the two very important conditions Tommo outlined below were not met,
To me learning techniques after a short period of time, or playing some things note for note isn’t all that impressive. What is impressive and what does take a long time is finding your own voice and phrasing on the instrument.
I sure hope he notates this on his academy, that sneaky little devil. 
the hard part for myself would be trying to hide the sound of it. i have only tried it for two days though so i just gotta give it time.
I would suggest playing the lick immediately at (or close enough to) the speed at which Joscho is playing it. Just wing it a few times and you may be able to surprise yourself
In brief;
(Since I have no need to procreate any further) I would give my left nut to be able to play what I wanted at the speed I wanted fully swiped! as I might actually enjoy playing a lot more than I do (and could probably minimise its occurance over time. I definitely swipe stuff, but I do it more when I’m looking for it, to the point that I’m sure I make it happen more when I actually try and prevent/fix it (moth effect! 
).
I 100% agree with this in principle and would advocate this approach, but in practice its not always that easy. I have been so fed up with my playing over the last 2 years that I came to the conclusion of "F**k alternate picking for now, just use USX a la EJ or Yngwie and be done with it!) Suffice to say, I have struggled so badly to incorporate the economy picking elements that it makes alternate picking seem like the fun option! 
i just feel like i want to throw the pick into the trash, and apply some fake nails to try flamenco economy picado so i can be done with this conundrum. 
for some reason if you look at all the speed tricks with the pick it all gets solved with flamenco 3 finger economy picado, and those tricks seem to just borrow the aspects from this realm. Like basically swybrid is just the third finger to help go faster that Marshall Harrison developed.
because if you desire to still use rest stroke style plectrum picking i kinda think you can get away with doing it with your thumb, as yamandu costa has been analyzed doing upstrokes with his thumb.
ok so now the big question i have now
is this a swipe rest stroke? does the pick swipe through to rest on the next string before doing the upstroke on the previous string? in my mind this would make a lot of sense as you get a pretty nice rebound effect off that rest by the gravity of motion being further.
joscho is only doing this on the high e string, but what about when it occurs when doing it on a lower string where the pick can rest on the string after it swipes through the previous one.
It doesn’t have to be, but it can be. Totally up to you. If most of your pickstrokes are already rest strokes, it makes sense to keep that going. To me the most important thing with swiped notes is good muting so that they aren’t heard (or barely heard…a little extra ‘chunk’ noise is kinda cool sometimes ). I hear some players need to also not really feel the swipe either. In that case, a rest stroke makes good sense because it already has some power behind it and you’ll probably plow through the swiped (muted) string without even knowing.
If there is one thing CtC taught me is that there are a thousand legitimate ways to skin a cat (er, pluck a string). The CtC models are invaluable to address various performance obstacles given that there is much that one can attempt but ultimately the goal is “only” to sound great while playing.
It seems to me that most people here correctly adopt the “if it sounds good, it is good” philosophy. Indeed, the only reason I want to see Magnet footage of somebody is to see if they have some tricks that I can steal—looking is never a “purity test” where I would criticize them.
Was looking at it again and the best weapon tactical approach would be to immediately as the sound hits on the last downstroke you swipe like the dickens through the next string to get to the rest on the 2nd string before upstroking the 1st swiped string hide it in sound of the downstroke note the moment it sounds through speed. make it disappear thats how fast you do it. 
and probably with the beauty of compression pedals that attacked downstroke note can be diluted. on my classical guitar however it cannot
Yeah I have never had any success with it on acoustic. Troy has shown footage of AL Di and also MAB swiping on acoustic. They make it work. To my ears it’s much more audible than players who do it on electric, which I can’t usually hear unless I am really trying to.
Wow; just read the entire thread, that was fascinating. The psychology element is something I’d thought about before, I love the flexibility of dual-escape picking but in the weeks since discovering CtC there’s no escaping it (pardon the pun): the one scalar lick I can reliably move across all six strings at speed uses upward escape. (Sixes with five alternates on the high E, one upstroke on the B string, repeat.)
If I were using double-escape, as I’ve been kidding myself, I could do the same with the Jet-to-Jet sixes, but I can’t: simple as that.
BTW for anyone wanting to isolate swiping, the acid test for me was simply muting the strings with the left hand; any swipes will be clear as day. It’s a humbling experience but cleans up double escape passages quickly.
So now I feel kind of dumb that I literally didn’t know what I was doing, but also optimistic: Any advice out there? Upward slanting and double escape make up most of my picking but I use downward slanting for arpeggios and sometimes to transition from arpeggios to scales.
This is an ideal time to change things up, I haven’t played much electric for years so the habits aren’t locked in like they used to be. Thanks for reading.
I found it difficult to only pick- it felt awkward. Instead, I weaved a bit of paper between the strings and fretted the notes below the paper. The strings slap against the paper with a nice “thwack!” but you still get to ‘play’ as you usually would.
That’s brilliant! Yes muting only works for really straightforward ideas because you’re relying on feedback from the left hand to “track” the phrase. So after that monumental thread what’s your feeling on double-escape? Troy’s initial suggestion makes sense (of course) but I’m inclined to minimize swipe and live with a certain amount of it as things like Gilbert sixes are working for me (somewhat.) Before I read your thread I just dismissed my (well, someone’s) descending sixes lick as “cheating” but I now think it’s just idealistic and nonproductive to think that way.
It’s hard to describe but a big part of why I do this is just the feeling; when everything flows it just feels great. Downward slanting feels bizarre, I can’t imagine ascending scales that way but who knows.
Well, in my experience so far, I definitely swipe (unintentionally) but its not always in the same places, not audibly the same and sometimes I feel it, other times I don’t.
I don’t think its something that could easily be ‘micromanaged’ out quickly, more of a refinement over time. If you are learning a piece (and want to perform it reliably live) I would 100% try to rearrange the fingering to suit your strongest picking escape. ‘Improvising’ may well bring problems at times, but it can be lived with.
If its that problematic then, maybe just try it on occasion when you need a break (or a laugh) theres no point beating yourself to death with it.
I think you see Swiping as a mistake, or cheating or a flaw in playing. I see it as the exact opposite, because imo it requires a lot of skill to Swipe and for it to sound good, you need really good muting skills paired with right hand mechanics, and be able to add other techniques on the fly like the Batio ascending four note groupings; even with his systematic swiping he needs to add a secondary motion at the right time to get a USX string change that happens on an ascending portion of the groups. And he has to do all that cleanly which he does. So I guess it just depends on how you look at it. In my case my ego would feel better if my swiping was better because I would be able to tackle some lines with alternate picking that are currently very hard for me much easier and make them sound good at the same time.
I am glad I am not the only one who feels it this way. I only have one phrase where I do this, and it was quite the pain in the rear to train it into my rest stroke technique. Absolutely I don’t know if these people who view it as it is a hack, if it is more second nature to them. But it is not second nature to me, and it was tedious to build up swiping in that one phrase.
Yeah in my case is not second nature because first of all with my mechanics it works like Batio pretty much, only descending and specifically to avoid the USX string change, it’s very systematic. So I think on my own I never really did it. The second reason is I always thought I had to avoid the strings, basically do escape motion, my DSX came natural, USX not all. Instinctively I tried to use finger motion and weird movements to try to do it, it enevr worked. Until I figured out my wrist motion and anchoring better (thanks to this website mostly), and developed more naturally a USX secondary wrist motion. Again it came natural once I figured those things out.
Now, I recall seeing a Troy video where he talks about 2wps, and how he thought he was clearing the strings completely always, yet under inspection he was still employing swiping but the escape motion made the swiping much less noisy. I think that’s my case for a lot of the descending stuff, my motions for escaping just makes the swipe much more silent. But to me where it’s really harder is when you don’t attempt to escape the string at all and just go straight through it, I realized that approach would economize and make my motions far more efficient in certain scenarios, that becomes very evident in those 4 notes groupings I was talking about, or the Batio descending fours aswell, on the descending fours done the Batio way for example, if you have good swiping plus DSX, essentially it turns from a 2wps pattern to a one way pickslating or single escape pattern plus swiping economizing a lot of motions of the picking hand. But it just doesn’t come natural for me, I think it is specially difficult on the top strings, the high strings, where muting with the right aswell doesn’t happen that much, because I find in the lower strings you can get away with palm muting a lot more, so you have the picking hand muting and the fretting hand muting. But just fretting hand alone it’s tougher to make it sound clean. That’s why I’m always amazed when I see Batio or when I see Rusty Cooley going into hyper speed mode.