Technical difficulties with Paul Gilbert licks

Playing Technique
#61

Fair point. He is that good.

That being said, sometimes tone can really mess with the perception of your technique. Recently I thought that I had totally lost all facilty to play cleanly on the lower 2 strings (in pitch) - no matter what I did it sounded cruddy. I had recently moved the living room around and realised that I was sitting at a different distance and angle from the cab than usual and that if I stood up or moved my head a few of inches eitherside, my technique returned. I discovered (after a google search) that I was experiencing the speaker ‘beam’. It sounded so harsh and messy that my ear couldn’t really hear what was going on. Blew my mind! I knew that pointing a mic on axis at the centre of the cone is harsh, but I never thought i would experience something so baffling to my ears.

Caveat: I do have a bit of hearing loss which probably didn’t help lol!

#62

I love the tone on that video (the “conjar” video :slight_smile: ) - it’s my next quest hahahaha.

Actually when you think about it - those kind of live videos - you know those cameras have usually have some sort of AGC system - which acts like a compressor and makes tone decoding even more difficult :slight_smile:

#63

I’ve been practicing this song lately, and I’ve been looking at videos of Paul Gilbert picking for a better main riff performance for this song

And I found this video. I think this is the cleanest playing video I’ve ever seen from Paul Gilbert’s technical difficulties.

What I can see in this video is that PG starts the palm mute riff with a downstroke.

So, i think he is primary dsx wrist motion user, similar to Andy wood and Al.

But, he is also mixed escape wrist player. And I can see that he transform his picking motion into usx during the palm mute riff.

6-note-pattern is full of downstroke escape.

What do you all think? If there’s anyone who’s tried this song, please give me some advice!

Have a nice day :slight_smile:

#64

Have you tried starting the three note runs on an upstroke? That’s much easier for me

#65

Moved here. Hope you’ll find the discussion above useful :blush:

1 Like
#66

I just broke from strict alternate picking - I find it much easier to start the riff on a down stroke, then just start the fast lick on an upstroke anyway even though it requires a change xd

#67

Looking at that videos, I’m pretty convinced for the 6 note pattern he does a double downstroke, but instead of normal economy picking a la Yngwie - the thumb pushes the string changes causing both the cleaner attack and the illusion that it’s alternate picked (the down stroke is broken into 2 motions rather than a sweeping one). It also aligns with the exaggerated thumb bending and apparent finger involvement. I’m gonna try practicing that, plant the wrist and bend the thumb/index up to get above the strings starting in DWPS, as the thumb pushes through the last note end it in UWPS for the rest of the run.

I’m thinking of this as a 7 note pattern with 2 chunks with the last note being the first note the the more rhythmic portion. So it’s like 8 7 9 – 8 on the E and A strings are chunk 1. 9 10 – 10 on the A and D strings are chunk 2. the last note of each is a thumb/index movement with the last one possibly involving a bit of forearm in combination when changing pickslant although you could potentially use the finger motion alone to change it.

#68

Thanks! Good discussion :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

1 Like
#69

Agreed, in no small part because the trademark “Gilbert 6s” pattern from this song is a classic escaped downstroke motif. The main riff of this does take some two way escaping though.

This has been a “i need to work on my alternate picking, let’s take up Technical Difficulties again” project of mine, and I also favor a downstroke escape by default. It appears like that might have been in part due to simple picking mechanics, but I also wonder if that was luck, or if there’s a chicken and egg element here and the fact I’ve tried to get this up to tempo for years is a big part of the reason I favor escaped downstrokes. :rofl:

#70

Yup.

Basically starting with dsx, switching to usx, and then coming back to dsx.

But I’m a USX user and I’m also working on starting with upstream. I’m not used to Al’s DSX wrist motion. I’m practicing for it :rofl:

#71

Alright, I’ve messed with this piece a few times before and it’s definitely tricky as hell - decided to just slow down and think through it a bit. all the transitions are a bit sloppy and jagged but I think I have the core of it working. Considering I’m rocking some 9-46 gauge strings in D standard it seems like the motions will work - might need a bit more string tension though.

I’m starting on a down stroke for both the 6 note ascending runs and the crosspicking thing. I’m using kind of a DSX primary wrist anchored cross picking movement for the latter - I’m starting DSX on that initial downstroke and then on the upstroke I supinate the forearm so it escapes on the upstroke looking like a standard UWPS escape. I just keep bouncing that back and forth.

On the ascending runs I pronate my forearm extra and at least try to remember to bend my thumb a bit for angle and to get it positioned as above the strings as I can while anchoring the wrist.

One the first string change for the ascending run, - what I consciously was going for was switching from DSX to USX on the first note of the A string and continue that way until the D string downstroke - I don’t think I’m doing that.

I think what I’m doing is D U D, then forearm supination into A string for a more accented economy stroke, reverse that with an upstroke, then downstroke the 6th note, and another forearm rotation into the first note of the crosspicking type sequence.

#72

Wow Amazing!

I’m a Primary Wrist USX Player Like EJ, Mike Stern

So, I can start this riff with Upstroke. If then, It will UDU DUD etc…

But, the same situation comes again, I have to change my motion to DSX.

1 Like
#73

Yeah I think I’ve always been primary neutral/DSX or had a pretty small slant because the main shreddy players I tried to emulate were Buckethead, MAB, Rusty Cooley early on, definitely PG had an influence as well. When I’m playing I instinctively palm anchor and on the lower strings I tend to use USX/DWPS and on the higher strings I’m using DSX/UWPS just because it changes as I go, I had to learn the thumb/forearm adjustment later on to get DSX working on the lower strings so I ended up with some experience with both pickslants.

You could just try getting as close to PG’s technique as you can and drilling some of his runs and signature patterns that way, even if it’s super awkward. I’m a fan of trying to “play like the player” lately - for instance I find it a bit awkward/unnatural when trying Yngwie style all DWPS going all the way up to the high strings, but when I’m working on Yngwie runs, I try to use that instead of accommodate them to 2WPS or UWPS. It’s an excuse to both learn a whole new technique and you can feel a little better about your progress because of that, maybe you start out way worse at it - just means you have plenty of progress to watch and it feels better when you can see that improving more than wrestling with making it work with the technique you’ve been familiar with.

That said, I also find it super awkward to start alternate picking runs on an upstroke

2 Likes
#74

Great post!

I felt this way too, and I’m far from a master at it but I’ve improved a lot on it the past few months. And it isn’t something I regularly practice! I read some thing Troy said in…some post…somewhere. I don’t recall the exact quote but it was something along the lines of “What’s really the difference between an upstroke and downstroke???” lol! Got me thinking…

I don’t know how I stumbled across the idea, but I was doing one of those ‘table tapping tests’ and I thought, if I tapped from underneath the table, it’s the same thing as starting on a upstroke. Doing this to a click just made something internally ‘click’ for me, where the downbeats lined up with my upward taps. I could then transfer it to the guitar pretty easily. Just thought I’d share in case it helps you or anyone else. I agree different techniques are fun and I do regularly try playing things that are DSX specific, OR things that are USX specific, with drastically different setups. There is the occasional phrase that is just easier to start on an upstroke though. Seems like a good skill that would be cool to do on demand.

2 Likes
#75

the only non awkward upstroke would be fingerstyle. :smiley:

1 Like
#76

Lol! Great point! I’ve never felt all the scalar i-m alternation I do on classical feels weird because it starts on an upstroke. In fact…it’s ALL upstrokes! lol

#77

heh its gypsy rest stroke in reverse. :smiley:

#78

That’s an interesting approach. I’ve been practicing it some lately as well - I can definitely do it okay in isolation, but working it into any transitions is still really awkward and muscle memory always takes over. I have to consciously think about that initial upstroke too much. Probably just a matter of working with it long enough to settling into muscle memory.

#79

Habit. :rofl:

I’ve tried to get better at this, and I’ve made some progress, but it still feels a bit awkward. But, you’re 100% right, in theory there’s no difference between a downstroke and an upstroke, it’s just what you’re used to.

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#80

I think I’m making pretty good progress, just need to clean it up a bit on transitioning from the 6 note pattern and the bouncing rhythm. The bouncing rhythm section I do kind of an UWPS economy bounce thing I could try and get a close up of if it’s helpful.

I don’t think I’m ever leaving UWPS/DSX through the run