Tension in forearm when using wrist-forearm USX motion

Technique Critique
#1

Hi there,
I am experiencing some tension in my forearm towards my wrist when I try to play some lines using what I believe is a wrist-forearm USX motion.

Here are some videos of playing with it occurring:

normal speed:

Slo-mo:

It happens at around this part of the phrase:
image
I also slow down and stutter slightly when I try to play the part the results in tension

I also seem to get this while trying to do a basic 4nps pattern.

I don’t think I am string hopping (but please let me know if I am!), so I am not too sure what could be causing this issue.

Any help is really appreciated :slight_smile:
Thank you!

#2

Is it possible to film again and use a pick that isn’t the same color as your pickup?

Also, that has some non-USX-ish parts in it. I’d move final E (12 fret E string) to the 17th fret on the B string to help streamline it

image

To me it plays really naturally that way in a USX context

Maybe try it like that and see if it feels better? I can’t play it very well as it appears in your tabs and it’s just that one note that seems to ruin it.

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#3

I don’t have any different coloured jazz 3 picks, would putting some coloured tape over one be sufficient or could it mess up pick attack or something else?

Sorry, I probably should have mentioned in my original post that I already do this, I just used that tab as it was the one I had at hand. Sorry for the confusion

Thanks for the help :slight_smile:

#4

Ah. How about tape over the pickup then? I just can’t see the pick at all and can’t tell if it’s traveling in the direction we think it is.

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#5

Yep, I’ll try that and hopefully get a video up soon! Thanks for the help :slight_smile:

#6

Of the jazz 3 picks that are different colours (I know theres an orange one), are the different coloured ones made of a different material? I currently use the ‘max grip’ ones, and I am curious to try some other ones (if they’re made of different materials) now that you mention it :slight_smile:

Thanks again

#7

Yeah I think they come in a variety of materials. There is an Eric Johnson signature version that I am pretty sure is different. I used jazz iii’s exclusively for over a decade. One of the biggest things I have change since finding Troy’s site is using a variety of picks. Now whenever I grab a jazz iii it feels really small to me. :thinking:

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#8

So I decided to order some of the orange jazz 3s (and some other picks to try out :slight_smile: ) so I’ll try to get a video up with that in the next couple of days (sorry for the delay)

In the meantime, I noticed that when doing a basic 4nps pattern, I was gripping the pick quite tightly, and some of the tension was released when I noticed this and relaxed it. Could this be a sign that there is a problem with my technique, or could it be as simple as i’m just tensing up/gripping the pick too much?

Thanks again :slight_smile:

#9

Fatigue could be lots of different things. I know back when I first started joined here I posted a clip playing chromatic runs at 185 bmp, which ain’t exactly slow but I couldn’t go faster and was getting stamina issues. We should expect more of ourselves :slight_smile: While 185 is a good speed, there shouldn’t be any reason a motion that can go that fast can’t also go substantially faster.

Troy’s diagnosis of that was that I had a motion mismatch. I was trying to play USX but my elbow was driving the motion. This led to mostly trapped playing with swipes in both directions. I think all that collisions is probably what felt like lots of work. Also, the pick attack wasn’t always consistent and I think that can contribute. If nothing else, it makes us feel the need to “try harder” which can lead to fatigue, or even perceived fatigue.

I’d say if you have seen good results by not gripping the pick so tightly maybe that’s all it is. When you dial that tension out is the speed still there? Are the string changes clean on the upstrokes? If so your motion is probably fine. Big picture though, it’s still a relatively new motion for you and I’d expect some growing pains.

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#10

Thanks for the input :slight_smile:

I was playing around with the motion earlier, and thought that it could be something to do with pick slant/pick attack. I sometimes find my pick attack is a bit inconsistent, maybe due to my pickslant changing slightly when tracking across multiple strings?

I also often feel like when I try downstroke sweeping, the pick either gets a bit stuck, or goes through the string too early, messing up my timing/rhythm.

Could these be signs of a motion trajectory and pick slant mismatch (i.e. the pickslant isn’t quite perpendicular to the path the pick traces)?

Thanks again!

#11

That’s in the weeds more than I am qualified to comment on lol! All I know Troy has this mantra something like “It’s easy or it’s wrong!!!”

If something feels weird change things until it feels right. Don’t keep doing the same thing hoping it eventually feels right. I think at this point we are confident your motion is good. So other stuff to tweak to get angles better could be slant, pick point, grip etc

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#12

So I managed to get some of the orange picks, so hopefully you can see the pick better next to the black pickup covers :slight_smile:

Since my original post, I seem to have been able to mostly get rid of the tension while playing this lick, however I am now having trouble with the 1 downstroke sweep that occurs in the part I am playing. Here is a video showing that:

You can see that when I try to speed it, it all falls apart during and after the sweep.

Thanks again :slight_smile:

#13

Not sure if I’m seeing things but on a couple reps it looks like maybe the pick went a little away from the body, which is a change in trajectory. If you focus on pushing in towards the body of the guitar, does that help? Also, you may want to just isolate a lick with sweeps to focus on that core motion

E|---------------------|
B|---12-15---12-15--etc|
G|-14------14----------|

That’s a common ‘bluesy’ lick you could re-use in many tunes, and I think a snippet of that even gets used in the Cliffs of Dover intro. The main thing I have to keep myself from doing is any extension of the wrist (sort of the motion that happens when you’re “shooing” away an insect) because that will cause DSX

Other things to mess with could be pick point, if you feel something is getting ‘stuck’. Or maybe a tweak to your setup and make it more “gypsy” like or how Troy sets up for (one of) his bread and butter USX motions:

#14

Is that just on the sweep or on other parts as well?

By pick point do you mean how far the pick is rotated? (I’m not sure how to describe this, but I don’t mean pick slant)

Thanks for all the help :slight_smile:

#15

I don’t think your general motion has an issue, I was mostly talking about the sweep. Still, that’s a good general recommendation for USX - go into the body on down strokes. I have to remind myself every once in a while since the first motion I ever got good with was DSX.

Yep! Do you have access to the Pickslanting Primer? It’s explained here:

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#16

What degree of pick point would be about right for a wrist-forearm USX setup?

#17

Getting an exact degree shared between 2 players may be weird since it’s dependent on other angles. Since I mess with several motions, one thing I’ve found helpful to dial in perfect pick point is to do a fast tremolo (in the specific posture I’m working on) and relax my grip so that the pick starts to rotate. It finds the pick point that it wants, then I (gently) firm up the grip a little. It’s rarely going to be extreme, I don’t think. Just enough to smooth out any sticky-ness.

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#18

Would you say that there is more, less or about the same resistance to the pick when doing a downstroke sweep compared to a standard pickstroke?

#19

I think it’s about the same. It just feels like a ‘longer’ pick stroke to me.

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