The guitar doesn't fit - issues with size and position

Technique Critique
#73

@GTR My man, this is an issue I have been struggling with since I started.

I can not even begin to comprehend how people are able to play superstrat shaped guitars when standing up and wearing them low.

I have found that for me personally, a V shaped guitar is so much more comfortable (especially for the left hand) that I refuse to play anything else.

Let me explain why:

For me personally, my right hand “requires” the guitar to be placed lower. In a regular scenario this would mean sacrificing left hand comfort, however V’s have 3 very particular advantages in this regard:

  1. With proper strap pin placement and good balance, the necks of most V’s naturally sit at a 45 degree angle. This is as close as you can get to a seated classical position. Having played Ibanez RG’s for a while, their natural neck position when standing up is what I would personally (and subjectively) describe as “severe neck dive”.

  2. The 2nd factor is way more subtle, however just as influential. From what you described, this should interest you greatly. With a strap pin placed behind the neck (For refference see neck through Jackson KV’s and RR’s) as opposed to on a horn, the guitar has an inclination to tilt forward and away from the body in 2 “ways”.

    • firstly, the top of the neck (Low E side) is tilted forward and away from your body, enabling you to reach over for the low strings MUCH easier… as opposed to superstrat shapes where the Low E side of the neck is tilted towards your body. I have found this to be a TREMENDOUS factor when it comes to comfort and stretchy stuff.

    • secondly, because of the shape itself, the entire neck is angled away from your body. This allows for way more room when playing higher up the neck. Someone in the pervious replies had suggested pushing on the guitar body with your right forearm to bring the neck further away from your body, however this has a very limited range and efficiency compared to V’s. In my case, all I need to do is push the neck away with my left hand and it is more than gappy to move further away and remain there with no extra effort. As an added bonus, when pushing the neck away with a V, the lower horn of the body moves in between your legs, enabling you to “lock” it in place, which brings us to point number 3:

  3. The wings of a V style guitar can be used to “hook” the body of the guitar to your right leg, thereby providing extra stability turning the guitar into a non-moving target. I have found this to be particularly usefull during lead playing that involves wide horizontal jumps and/or stretches.

So that’s it, my friend. Know that you are not alone, and while most people are (somehow) perfectly happy with a superstrat shape, a V style guitar might prove to be the most ergonomic choice for you, as it has been for me. I suggest you go to a store and try a few V’s. It might turn out to be the miracle cure for you as well!

P.S - Dear @Troy , I have found this to be a major issue, please check out my little essay hahah

4 Likes
#74

Hi, Alex. That’s a great post and I’m glad to know that I’m not alone.

Now I’m really thinking about getting a V-shape guitar.

What’s a good V guitar? I’ve had bad experiences with Jackson guitars in the past. They routed the Floyd Rose directly into the wood, causing the guitar to always be out of tune. They also tend to sound pretty bad.

Several months ago, I tried a James Hatfield Vulture ESP. The guitar balanced amazingly well. It sounded amazing with distortion, too. What I disliked about it was the placement of the volume knobs with the combination of very high output pick ups. I like to use the volume knob so that I can dial back the gain and control dynamics. The neck was a bit too narrow. However, I now regret not purchasing that guitar, as it was on clearance then and I could have paid to relocate the volume knobs and change the pick ups.

#75

If you are dead set on wide and flat Ibanez-style necks, Jackson would be a good choice. Id’ suggest looking into the pro-series King V and RR models.

The problems you described from your past experience with them shouldn’t be a thing with today’s models.

1 Like
#76

Alex, your responses are motivating me to buy a V.

What are some of the coolest Vs you guys see here?
https://www.guitarcenter.com/search?Ntt=V+guitar

Everybody, post some pics of cool guitars for me

EDIT: what is the difference between the ProSeries King V and the king V?

The Rhoads V has a smaller lower horn. The bigger lower horn on the king V seems like it’ll go into my leg better

#77

https://youtu.be/sTNbQZ3ho10
Me playing a James Hetfield ESP Vulture. The strap is over the wing to connect to the lower strap button.

Most players would affix the strap to the lower button from behind and underneath. For Gibson flying V, the strap button is usually at the tip of the horn. This will certainly affect balance. I’m not sure if I would prefer it that way. I think I would prefer having the strap button in the middle and with a strap over the top of the guitar body like I had it.

#78

The Pro Series King V is indonesian made, while the “classic” King V is USA made. Depends on your budget :wink: (Just steer clear of X series or JS series, they are entry level models).

I would also suggest trying ESP/LTD Arrow and/or Alexi models just in case if they are available in a store near you.

#79

I dont want to interrupt you guys and if you think a V-shape solves the problem, go for it, any reason to buy a guitar is a good one :slight_smile:

However, after reading through the conversation here, i really feel the need to get something out of my system, since you seem to think that there is something wrong with you:

not being able to play higher positions comfortably when standing is a totally normal thing for guys like us who have unsolved technical issues. I dont really think that it has anything to do with anomalies in your physiology or sports activities.

I remember when i played live (aka when i was still cool) i placed my leg on the monitor boxes to play shreddy stuff on every single show. I couldnt play solos any other way.
Like you, i am a normal person, meaning i dont have freakishly large arms or something. The reason why i had to place the guitar on my leg wasnt physiology, it was that my technique just didnt allow for anything different. Better technique is much more flexible.

What i try to say is, i dont think you tense up and experience pain in those positions because you cant play the higher positions, but that you cant play those positions because of the tension and pain.

My solution would be to just sit down to practice and focus on developing smooth picking and fretting. One you found a way to really play something effortlessly, it will become much less scary when standing up (though it needs some time to get used to for sure). Just like you can play those powerchords just as easily standing as you can do them sitting.

3 Likes
#80

The Jackson king V much cheaper than the ProSeries king V. I don’t understand why

#81

That’ terrible advice.

Doing the same thing and expecting different results is insanity.

Expecting that what fits you will fit me is not smart, especially considering that I’ve posted ample evidence to indicate otherwise.

Maybe I can tell you ride my bike without adjusting the seat first, yeah? Just keep practicing it for another 25 years. The reason that your feet don’t reach the pedals is you need to relax more.

You’re talking about how you solved your own problems and that therefore your solution is going to solve my problems.

I’m glad you’ve gotten everything solved for yourself.

#82

I don’t think that is what he is really saying. You do need to do something different from what you are doing now, but the different guitar MAY not solve it - you may/likely need to work on what you are doing regardless of the guitar. Personally, I do think that you should investigate other guitars and the above posts do indicate that others have experience some of the things you described and have also benefited greatly from finding the right guitar for them. If this solves the problem entirely, then that would be awesome and I would be the first to congratulate and encourage it. However, what if a V style guitar helped only half of what you needed in order to acheive your goals - what then? You will have to work on what you are physically doing, just as we all do.

Although I agree with the sentinents in @J.P.Amboss post, where he/she has also provided some practical advice that will at least help in the short term, maybe it could have been written in a different way to convey some of the points… just my 2 cents (or pence seeing as I’m from sunny UK!).

Let us know how you get on with the Flying V - I think that there are a number of folks on this site that play that sort of guitar, they might help you make the most informed choice possible.

2 Likes
#83

Maybe i do see what your problem is.

When you are sitting down i think you hold the guitar more on the right side of your body then when you are standing; then it is more in front of your body.
Try to hold the guitar also more on the right side of your body when you are standing. This will move your left arm away from the left side of your body and therefore creates more space.

Hope this helps…

#84

When you are sitting down i think you hold the guitar more on the right side of your body then when you are standing; then it is more in front of your body.

That’s not the problem for my left hand. The problem for my left hand is not enough space for my left forearm causing my hand to be smashed against the back of the neck. Then I have to pull back my elbow and it’s very tense and jammed and uncomfortable.

#85

Sorry this did not help you enough…
However, i don’t think a different/special designed guitar will help you enough also.
The problem in my opinion still lies more in finding the right arm/hand position when playing in the upper register on the guitar.

When going up higher on the guitar we of course all have to deal with less space where the left arm/ellbow touches the body and moving backwards a bit.
With longer arms/ hands the problem is probably a bit bigger but not so big that you can’t overcome this with changing the positioning of your arm and hand.
It is difficult to explain though without sitting in the same room and helping you by moving your arm and hand position.
The first thing i would try to do is bring out your left arm/elbow a bit more away from yor body and lower it a bit at the same time, which also brings the wrist and hand more towards the front of the neck then on the back. It is a bit more like a position you will use when learning classical guitar.
This may feel very strange and uncomfortable at first, but you once you get used to it it will become comfortable.

There are more players with longer arms and bigger hands and they play a Strat or Les Paul type etc… guitar.
Keep trying to find the right arm/hand position before waisting any money on a special build guitar.
You can do it in my oponion, i am sure of that.

Keep on rocking!

#86

Right. Yngwie is freaking 1.90m and has no problems with strat. Though he keeps nice angle between his body and a guitar, especially when sitting.

1 Like
#87

The problem is not that your arm is too long, or the design of your guitar

You are not using your left shoulder joint, . You can create all the space you need by using it.

Using that and the Andjoy advise you will solve the problem, and if you stick with it, just a little time, you will find that there is not discomfort at all in playing like that. It is a very natural position.

Look, Paul Gilbert, 1.93 m height, insanely large hands, same guitar.

#88

We’ve talked about the left shoulder extensively in this thread. Retracting the scapula fully gets the arm back some but not enough. Moving the guitar to the right helps some, too.

The idea of the guitar design is to get the more of the same effect — get the guitar shifted more to the right and further from my shoulder — by making a guitar that is less painful to play.

#89

Then you are not doing the correct movement. I’m gonna try to make a video.

#90

I just got my other Ibanez modded to have the strap button adjustments. The button protrudes 2cm from back of the the upper horn giving me about 6 cm more and easier time pushing the guitar out in front a few extra cm.

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#91

Here you are.

That’s really all you need to do.

As you see it is not retracting your scapula. That would be a very inefficient way of trying it, you would tense up a lot.

It is using your shoulder joint, moving your humerus. Just an arm extension of about 10º. A very confortable position to maintain for a long time.

1 Like
#92

I think that you should consider taking your guitars and seeing somebody that specializes in ergonomics. One such example (of many) are “Alexander Technique” practitioners that specialize in musicians, they’ll want to see you playing. A lot of musicians develop all kinds of serious problems, and I’m delighted that you’re addressing any potential issues.

Given that I use my hands nearly constantly if I’m awake, I try to take care of them. When I sit with a guitar it is in a full classical position with a stool, etc. When I stand I have a strap that doesn’t slide and I keep my neck at a classical angle. One thing that I note is that a guitar does’t have to be fixed, one can jerk it around and reorient it as needed, and this is also visually exciting for the audience. Check out the associated thread that suddenly delves into this issue at the end,