and gradually bring the string change in once I’ve got that accent pattern locked in.
I remember three other videos from paul, I will try and find and post them when I have time.
One is video is a recap of the gilbert lick and how he started playing like that with a string change shuffle thing.
Another video is him playing it with NO PICKING at all at speed.
and the last video is him playing it on the 1st 2nd strings - then increasing the string jumps 1,2 then 1,3 then 1,4 then 1,5 then 1,6 - which is the video that makes me cry and wanna take up knitting!
Just a quick reaction to this (and I know the feeling of being stuck for years!).
After years of doing (probably) small variations of the same thing, it’s unlikely you’ll see big changes. What you could try is to do something radically different!
Try to drastically change your anchor, pick grip, arm position, or whatever other variable you can think of!
I know it sounds scary but it does not have to be a permanent change (unless you’ll want it to be!). Just - initially - a trick to perceive your guitar in a different way hence increase your chances to find new mechanical solutions.
I think this is really well put! Troy also mentions PGs telltale “thumb-bump” when he plays DSX. And yes, it is not there when he plays the lick slow, but it creeps in when he switches into gear. I also think he “MABs” this lick, DSX and swipe. Also, his “scratchy” sound approach might give him a pick angle that helps to make the swipe less obvious, and/or mask it. @Interestedoz have you tried something extreme like @tommo suggested? Jorge strunz comes to mind, since hes so good at hiding swiping. I recently had quite some fun with @Tom_Gilroys trailing edge grip.
This is a great question. I have listened to the piano like where he does this switch repeatedly and to my ear it is very very clean. But others might be able to confirm for us.
Great point! Especially as it is so hidden in those huge fingers he has!
thanks for the video! and keep 'em coming if you find the others!
To be honest I get lost with trying to apply the DSX/ USX concepts to my playing. Thanks too for @Johannes for input. Troy did kindly take a look at one of my videos and confirmed it is DSX. But I have REALLY experimented with many many different approaches. There is a fundamental lack of wrist speed when jumping the string multiple times.
Indeed yes - and thanks @tommo again for your input. I am just trying something new!
My wife (a classical musician) challenged my assertion that I could play the Paul Gilbert lick at 140 bpms! She told me to get the metronome! So I did.
And the results are quite shocking. See this video! haha
So the “new” thing I am trying is to practice against a metronome. I have never done this before. I am doing it now. A couple of observations:
(a) there is nowhere to hide
(b) the metronome doesn’t lie
(c ) you can track your progress
It also surprised me how uneven my playing is.
So really for me to be able to say I can play the Paul Gilbert lick, I need to be able to play the lick (including the double switch) against a metronome at 190 bpm!
Current standing:
Paul Gilbert 190 bpm
Interested Oz : 126 bpm
I don’t think the slow practice gets you anywhere. You have internalized all the notes and your hand sync is good! Your whole form is different when you play this slow, so the slow practice might not help at all to get you to the speeds you desire.
I rewatched your very first video in this thread, and this is a great Foundation! You are kind of nailing it there. I am puzzled, why did you step back from that? It sounds awesome!
I believe you could get the double switch from that setup, if you just play the “easy” (haha!) gilbert lick at speed, and then just extend it at some point. Something like this:
But always fast! Only use the metronome to check if you are fast enough!
Also, f*** the gilbert lick at some point!
You clearly know how to play guitar, and all the hours you put into practice are not wasted.
I don’t 100% agree that @Interestedoz should totally ditch the metronome. In a couple of the posts above, the timing has been a bit inconsistent here and there and his latest video sounded the most even. A bit of work with the mertronome help that. Agree that its no magic bullet for speed work though…
Can’t agree more - it was sounding great. I guess the question is how much is the “double switch” version going to need to be played at 190bpm , over and above the ‘standard’ version? My instinct is ‘not much’
@Interestedoz I think it’s important to realise that there are different challenges you are trying to tackle here: speed, syncronisation, timing and clean string changes (I’m sure I may be forgetting something but hey).
In my opinion, and that of many others it seems, the metronome will do nothing for the “speed” aspect. It can work great for assessing your timing, but only after the other elements are in place. 126bpm, for example, allows for a degree of motion micro-management that is probably impossible at 190.
If your first objective is to play the lick at 190bpm, I would suggest to seek a combination of hand/arm setup + pick grip + picking motion that does 190 bpm from day 1. Don’t worry about the sloppyness of the string changes at first, because the first objective is to experience what “Gilbert lick @190 bpm” feels like.
EDIT: in my personal opinion, the combination of (speed + hand sync + timing) is more important than having 100% clean string changes (i.e. no swipes). Think about the bigger picture of the guitar sitting in a mix with other instruments: I’d guess a problem in the first three elements would be much more noticeable than the occasional “click!” of a swiped muted string.
Apologies if I am repeating myself (I forgot if I mentioned these videos to you already), but these are our typical video suggestions for speed development:
thanks @7th11th !! I appreciate the support. You know I felt I was going to have to put a post up to assure people I’m not a terrible guitar player - if they come in at the end of this thread they will think I’m utterly hopeless! lol Thanks for taking the time to look at the first video.
Just to answer for you and @PickingApprentice on why I backed away from what I was doing at the top of this thread - I just wanted to play the lick exactly as Paul Gilbert plays it. I can get towards the 190 mark if I play the “easy” version of the lick in triplets - but its pretty swipey and rough.
With the harder double switch version I can get up to maybe 170 with a triplets/ swipey version.
But really the goal was to play it just like Gilbert does - turns out this is pretty hard!
thanks tommo - I use much more elbow when I push to those speeds - and yes it is pretty rough and sloppy! But I do take your point about getting the feel of that speed.
As I mentioned the metronome has been insightful as I was quite surprised how much my timing moved around. And you correct - this little lick incorporates SO many aspects of playing.
I will include flooring it to as close to 190 into my practice.
The double switch has been the really difficult part for me - when @shabtronic put up the piano lick above, I really saw the level of control PG has over the string jumps I just don’t know how h does it! He is trilling the string hop at 180 bpm plus!
There is another thread here on the PG lick and I know there was discussion about the physical/genetic aspects i.e. size and strength of hands etc. Does this come into this at all do people think?
Well, @Troy is not exactly a giant like Paul Gilbert! But he can definitely play this stuff incredibly well.
That being said, there is obviously the aspect of talent, but I don’t think it is necessary to be ridiculously gifted like PG just to play this. Certainly makes it easier to learn though!
I don’t ever believe in the genetic thing - I think everybody could play
guitar at a high skill level - it’s all about the passion and effort you
put into it.
There are many ways to get the motion path to get over the strings, maybe it’s just a missing mechanic combination:
I’ve tried most - the only one I havn’t tried is Deviation and Flexion/Extension. I will try this - I do know it’s difficult once you’ve learnt Rotation, I’m super lazy and so is my picking hand and I know it’ll try and convert deviation + extension into rotation.
Considering that he was able to learn and to use mechanics of Yngwie, Batio and other shredders… he is not a giant, he is a freaking ninja!! )) With that magic jutsu of copying opponent techinques
I just listened to this intently, and I can clearly hear the swipe, even at full speed. Try to listen to this harmonically, instead of the individual notes:
He alternates between e-d#-e-d#- etc.
and I can clearly here an “h” ringing out. (or “b” for you non german fellas)
and look at where his first finger is: 12th fret b-string. Which is also the string that has to be swiped when playing this lick with DSX. So lets kick PG off the pedestal a bit!
It still sounds amazing when he does it though, when I try to swipe this it sounds like a mess! You probably need to develop at least some part of the USX to get it to sound THIS good.
Your swipey version already still does sound good to me though! I think you’re just incredibly hard on yourself
Don’t forget - it took PG something like 8 years to get his picking to that standard - there are people that sortbit out in a matter of months!! Alas, I am not one of them…
It’s unbelievable how many picking styles Troy has cracked the code on. And yes Troy rips a pristine version of the PG lick @ 190 bpm!
Just on the genetics thing - I want to clarify that I obviously am on same side as @shabtronic with this - that is why I have been putting myself through this brutal process! lol
I think “If Paul Gilbert can do it - why can’t I?”
It is a huge challenge. But I have improved immensely already. It is definitely not easy. Paul Gilbert admits this has caused a lot of trouble for a lot of people. But I’m not giving up.
thanks again - I’m returning to my swipey version to see if I can clean it up
It’s a good point - I’m sure he worked very, very hard to get his style together
So , my latest process is taking on @tommo 's suggestion of the “play fast” approach - focusing only on the switch.
I am not trying to play the full piano lick yet - just the original lick.
So I actually only need to get a double switch (2 x reps) to 190 - not a full trill.
So I am practising JUST this fragment- (messily and swipey ) as fast as I can
-----12-----12-----
–15-----15-----15
Then once that is together I can look to blend it with the rest the lick.
Only suggestion I would give is to do it in short sessions, and also together with the rest of the lick, or other licks that present the same challenge.
Or you could write an etude that has some PG licks together with some other riffs and melodies in between. This could make practicing less boring but also give you a more realistic sense of what these lines feel like in context.
By the way, I hope you are working on other (more enjoyable!) things at the same time
Hehehe I see what you mean, but my current view is less drastic than that: I think all (musically useful) speeds should be practiced - but practicing at different speeds will make you learn different things / can fix or create different problems.
I was wondering, does the pepsi lick fall into that Category? That is for dsx players and starting on a downstroke.
The critical string change is the same - from an upstroke on the first string to a downstroke on the 2nd string, which can also be swiped. @tommo since I know you can do both licks really well (the easy gilbert and the pepsi), do these feel similar to you?
EDIT:
“Easy gilbert” - HAHA! As if…
EDIT 2:
I messed up - In my head, I had the pepsi lick reversed as ascending sixes repeating, but it is actually descending sixes! And that is unswipable in DSX starting on a downstroke. For it to present the same challenge as the Gilbert-lick you’d have to start it on an upstroke. Or play the ascending version starting on a downstroke.
and wanna take up knitting!
