Thoughts on Anton Oparin's claim about Paul Gilbert? Any truth to it?

Playing Technique
#23

Well I would be a little cautious there too. I wouldn’t really think too much about the intellectual aspects of it, and how many options there are to employ, more so worry about the fundamental picture of “does it work for me”, and “can I stick with it consistently enough to develop it”. To me these things are better for retrospective analysis. I get that some people really love the cookbook approach to things, and it is attractive to think that if I put everything together in an exact formulation i’m guaranteed to get the desired result systematically.

Also I think the wording of no tension is a bit off too, and I admit in my younger days people using this description threw me off, because this is a very relative thing. I don’t think there is ever “no” tension, there always some, just not a laborious amount.

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#24

Yep, agreed. I mean specifically the type of tension where if we do it for a long-ish duration, we feel like a lactic acid buildup.

#25

That is the funniest description I’ve read in a while.

#26

Hrrmm yeah I sound as though I’m a valley girl. Should have said

We feel a buildup of lactic acid

Not sure how else to describe the burn that happens when I play at higher speeds for longer than I have control over.

#27

I feel lactic acidosis just by being alive.

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#28

Damn dude you’ve had some dark posts lately lol!

#29

What do you mean lately?

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#30

I do wish people these days would stop pretending to blow everything off as a “joke”. Have an opinion and stick to it. The whole, “I was just joking” thing doesn’t work for me when making serious claims.

#31

I don’t think Paul withheld any information or had secretive high level training (in the 70’s in the boondocks no less)

I think the more likely answer is that there some bias confirmation coming from Anton.

I do this, and so does PG therefore ‘that’s’ why we’re good.

From what I can tell, the ‘wrist dance’ seems to involve a rotational aspect more than just wrist. Keep the pinky heel on the bridge, use a rotational movement but try and keep the pick moving in a straight line. It will look like your arm is moving up and down slightly despite a forearm component.

When either Anton or PG play fast this ‘wrist dance’ is completely absent, so I fail to understand it’s usefulness and seriously doubt it’s the secret to endurance.

Hell, look at McLaughlin who is incredibly fast (and a deviation/wrist player) but he looks quite forced/tense at times but his speed and endurance are amazing (same for Di Meola)

I think if there was some missing aspect (like the wrist dance) someone like Troy or the team would of stumbled upon it a long time ago.

As an aside, most players I like (with great stamina) seem to be USX and more forearm based (insert good Metal or Gypsy guitarist here)

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Learning how to pick like Anton Oparin using CtC
#32

Sports medicine is still rather primitive comparatively despite the funding that gets thrown at it. If that is true now, just think about what it was in the 70’s and 80’s. Now add that to what you would have possibly been able to find in rural Pennsylvania.

That should put this to rest.

As an aside, most people who develop a good picking hand naturally, never think about why they do so. Because they can do it, there’s no reason to put it under the magnifying glass, as there is no problem to solve. Because they are also likely to practice a ton as well, they also likely believe it is just the hard work paying off.

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#33

I didn’t read every reply, but Paul did change his picking style once he got to GIT. His picking hand thumb is double jointed and he used to hold the pick nearly vertical with his thumb bent backwards and essentially saw the strings when he picked. The first Racer X record was recorded that way. If you can find early videos of him, you can see that technique. He realized once he got to GIT that for longevity, he needed to change his pick grip to protect his thumb. This could be what Anton is referring to. Paul did study under some greats at GIT, Frank Gambale is one that comes to mind.

#34

He used the Shawn lane reverse grip for a while. He even demonstrates this in that MI video commercial on YouTube. He stopped because his thumb started to hurt but it was not under the guidance of a medical professional or researchers.

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#35

This sounds like a throw away comment from Oparin.

Observing other high level players is enough to cause big changes in your technique. It doesn’t take conscious critical thinking, just observation.

I made many of my biggest musical and technical leaps when I worked setting up live shows. I saw things up close, from different angles. I heard things that you don’t here in a recording. This all helped me immensely and I didn’t need to analyze it, or discuss it, or even consciously think about it.

#36

Anton wasn’t kidding about that line. It wasn’t a joke, it was 100% serious.

As far as the Gilbert speculation, Paul had a formula in the 80s and 90s which enabled him to develop techniques to play nearly anything on the instrument imaginable with insane control and articulation. He has admitted this in an extremely obscure magazine interview that is sitting a few feet from me as I write this. There is also another interview where he lets slip some critical details about his technical approach. I would agree with Anton that what Paul publicly discloses about his technical knowledge is likely 10% of what he actually knows.

Whether or not he had help? Hmm…

As far as the wrist dance? Don’t worry about it. You won’t be able to develop it without coaching. Just do the best you can to stay relaxed and in control. Some elbow/wrist is fine and is just about all you can hope for without controlling almost every aspect of your practice session.

#37

I’m curious. Got any sources?

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#38

Screenshot? Photo? Dictation? Fax it to me and I’ll type it up? Semaphore the name of the magazine while hiding each digit of the publication year and issue date in a series of advertisements for wool-based underwear in the New York Times?

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#39

What I’m kind of curious about is if Anton has any students that have honed their technique to an extremely high level like his.

I’ve seen from students who’s playing has improved, for sure. I know you’re a student and have quite a bit of skill, although I’ve only seen a couple short videos of your playing - so maybe you’re up there.

If there are any out there that are approaching his playing ability after training this would definitely reinforce the claim that this can be coached, at least to a talented person.

In the case of Paul Gilbert you have Buckethead - who apparently had some limited number of lessons from Paul.
Russ Parish - who is quite excellent and plays with Steel Panther - he might be the best of the group and looks to exhibit the ‘wrist dance’:

Joey Taffola:

Nicole Couch of Phantom Blue:

What’s interesting is they all are able to play things require 2 way escapes, string skipping etc exceptionally well. This certainly indicates there might be something to Paul knowing how to impart the ability to play the sort of lines he plays, although maybe it would require a lot of in person coaching to be effective - which would make sense with Anton’s teaching model as I understand it.

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#40

Satchel was his roommate for a period of time.

Paul doesn’t however utilize two way escapes all the time in reality. Paul often is a swiper.

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#41

I think it depends on the pattern and… other random things :smiley:

I’m pretty sure I saw / heard him do very clean string changes at speed on some licks. It may be that is was incredibly well done swiping, but I am not sure.

One example is the sequence of sweeps+string skips that he does somewhere in Intense Rock

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#42

Hard to say honestly but he does do it. possibly idiosyncratically.

His high degree of edge picking and neutral pick orientation can obscure the swipe especially if played away from natural harmonics particularly on plain strings. I also don’t think it’s an aggressive swipe either that you typically get with single escape, if anything it’s a skate over the string swipe, which is easy to achieve with a high degree of edge picking, and not trying to hit a lot of the string with the pick.

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