Thumb shifting pick slant

Playing Technique
#1

This is a follow up of my recent post on changing pick edge with changes in pick slant. When I shift from UWPS to DWPS my pick edge shifted from trailing to forward. Troy suggested it was an issue with my wrist movement. After looking at a video of my playing, I don’t think my wrist is moving much at all:

I’m playing Batio’s first scale (three notes on each string) starting with a down stroke and UWPS. Initially, my thumb is bent backwards like a hitch hikers. This is how I normally hold a pick with UWPS. As I go down the strings my thumb straightens out. This changes the pick slant to DWPS and the pick edge (from trailing to forward). My thumb then bends back again as I shift back to UWPS and the edge follows suit. There doesn’t seem to be much movement in my wrist.

I just started doing DWPS so my speed isn’t high but this scale is definitely smoother now that I introduced a little 2WPS. My thumb movement is pretty natural. It’s the same motion as pushing down a button. Also, there isn’t much force used. I’m not pushing the pick across the strings with the thumb, just adjusting the angle of the pick. So, I don’t think I’m at risk of injury.

I don’t remember seeing any reference to this type of motion used in controlling one’s pick slanting. Most players seem to have a pretty rigid hold on the pick. I’m concerned I might be limiting my ultimate speed. I think I can move my thumb fast enough but I’m not sure I’ll have the same control as I would with a wrist movement. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

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#2

Hey Mango, switching back and forth from trailing edge to leading edge picking isn’t something that anyone does. Your best bet is to pick one and stay with that. Your finger rocking doing this edge switching is making the picking look hoppy.

Figure out the exact angle that you want the pick to attack the string. Try to maintain that exact angle on each stroke. It’s only necessary to change that once every 6 notes if you are doing that Batio scale. If you keep the notes per string even numbers, you will never have to shift the pick at all. Flopping back and forth on each string is just gonna slow you down, it’s not necessary.

Watching the close up shots of Troy and Teemu are pretty misleading if you are trying to emulate those movements without knowing what is EXACTLY going on. I like Anton Oparin’s approach to alternate picking before getting into that bridge lean 2wps stuff. I’ve found that a lot of it isn’t even necessary in stuff I play.

:bear:

#3

I’m doing three pick slanting shifts. It’s four strings, three notes per string. I’m changing on second string and every string after to end on an UWPS so I can repeat. It does look hoppy to me too. From the video initially, it’s not clear if my picking direction is changing that much. But in the slow motion, it’s pretty clear that the picking slant has changed. It feels smooth, much smoother than before I was doing the thumb bending. I just hope I didn’t make it easier for me to sting hop.

#4

Yeah man, picking is complicated. My picking mechanics are long burned in. Anytime I try to totally change, when it’s music video time I see that I go right back to the way I always picked. So what I started doing is just experimenting with small changes. To see if it will improve what I’m already doing.

If you just switched from trailing Edge to leading-edge you might want to just maintain even leading edge pickstrokes and stop tilting the pick around for now. Don’t lift away from the strings. Pick through the string, rest stroke on the string under the pick stroke.

If you keep Drifting back to trailing Edge picking then maybe you should be a trailing Edge picker. People play that way too.

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#5

Thanks for posting! Short story, your edge picking changes are super tiny and from what I see, they aren’t influencing your picking motion at all. I agree with Hank that there is no point in attempting to modulate anythning.

Also, did you got to this point by watching our instructional stuff like the Pickslanting Primer or the seminars? Because what you’re doing is interestingly not really what I demonstrate in those lessons. It’s not wrong but it’s a different take on things. The fact that people can all watch the same stuff and come up with different movements is of interest to us because we want to be as clear and useful as possible in what we’re presenting.

Specifically, what I’m seeing in your case appears to be mostly wrist movement, maybe some finger component although it’s hard to tell because the movements are tiny. In general, what you are doing here looks like wrist-only two-way pickslanting, similar to Andy Wood does and what I think Anton Oparin probably also does. It is not what we [explicitly] teach in the Primer and the seminars, even though I am indeed making those movements, with the addition of forearm movement. Instead, it’s much more like the “902” set of movements we outline in this broadcast, which I recommend watching if you haven’t already:

https://troygrady.com/channels/talking-the-code/crosspicking-with-the-wrist/

Do you want to stick with wrist motion? If so, the broadcast linked above is our best outline of how the wrist works, and again, I recommend checking it out.

I’d also rewind a little and get your edge picking / tone standardardized. As @Hanky_Pooh says, I would choose the edge picking you want based on your ideal tone and smoothness of attack, and stick with that.

Second, again, if you want to stick with wrist motion, I’d want to rewind a little and try out some large, graceful, obvious picking motions with the wrist just to verify that the motions are working correctly and smoothly. I’d try both the 2:00 movement and the 9:00 movement. Again, the broadcast can help here. But in general, when learning new movements (or verifying current ones), I am a fan of movements at medium speed or faster, with a focus on gracefulness and naturalness, where you can both see and really feel the difference between the two movements involved. I would also test speed on a simple pattern or even a single note and make sure you can do these movement quickly, regardless of accuracy. Because if not, that may signal that the core movement is not working correctly.

In general, tiny movements with a focus on super accuracy are not how I generally approach motor learning. I like to see and feel the motion I’m making, and make it graceful, with a medium level of force/attack, and at medium speeds or greater. That’s where I’d start here.

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#6

Yeah @Mango whatta doin man? You got access to that broadcast n stuff. I gotta get my cardboard sign and panhandle if I wanna catch up to you guys. You got it made man. :rofl:

Listen to Troy, Later!
:bear:

#7

Thanks. Very reassuring. I did check out the Andy Wood videos and the wrist motion ones. I’m hesitant to tinker with my motion as it feels comfortable as is. As long as it’s not a limiting factor, I’m ok with it. Over the last few days I do seem to be minimizing the edge switching, not sure how intentional this was but it’s happening. Also, I am working on a more consistent larger stroke. When I’m more self-conscious (filming myself) or learning something new, my pick strokes get tiny.

I did watch the primer videos but not in great detail. I already had an idea of pick slanting and the benefit to string changing. My first approach was to do some DWPS as it was pretty foreign to me. I didn’t do anything formal to tilt the pick to DWPS position. Evidently, I moved my thumb more than my wrist to get to DWPS. Looking down at my hand, it seemed normal and I went with it. The picking motion is virtually the same as with UWPS, which I already do. When I tried to rotate my wrist into DWPS, the picking motion was different, something I wasn’t use to. So I quickly abandoned it and went back to using my thumb to shift the pick slant.

Again, thanks for the feedback. Just one thing to do now…practice.

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