Time Placement of Strummed Chords

Playing Technique
#1

This doesn’t have to do with picking technique, really but I wanted to pose this question here since I always enjoy the thoughtful responses and discussions here.

So over the past few years I’ve become more and more fascinated by time and groove and working to be able to play consistently with the beat - or ahead or behind the beat. With single notes this is simple enough to evaluate but with strumming chords I’m still wondering if the way I approach this is different than others.

Let’s say we have a down-strummed six-note chord. No matter how quickly you strum across the strings, there will be a little time elapsed between the onset of playing the sixth string and the time your pick reaches the first string.

So my question is, how do we place the chord strum on the beat? Should the onset of the chord be on the beat? If we perceive the highest note on the first string to be a melody note, should it be on the beat with the preceding notes leading up to it? Should the chord just be as centered on the beat as possible?

And of course this may vary depending on the style of music or groove one is playing. I also find myself thinking about this with things like octaves where there are technically only two notes, but often the surrounding muted strings around them add a different attack to their sound.

BTW When I record and look at what I’ve played against the “grid” I often see that my onset is a bit early and that I tend to place the higher notes that I perceive as melody on the beat. While that makes editing a track a little more difficult. I don’t necessarily find it sounds wrong.

Thoughts?

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Recommendations for Perfecting Timing
#2

I tend to think of the “one” or the beat as being a window rather than an exact point on the line/grid

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#3

Guthrie Govan touches on this in Cutting-Edge Techniques book, the first of the excellent Creative Guitar series (highly recommend reading the first two which he authored!). I’m not sure if I can post a screenshot of the page, but to paraphrase and summarise it, it’s the difference of playing behind or ahead of the beat. He suggest to try playing a chord with the first note of a chord hitting the beat, and then with the last note of the chord on beat. This shifting of the beat makes you play behind or ahead of the beat, giving the music some human touch. He suggests listening to Miles Davis’ Kind Of Blue album for behind-the-beat playing, with some ska or Motown style of playing for contrast. :slightly_smiling_face:

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#4

This is a long standing debate in classical piano circles for the performance arpeggiated chords like so:

image

The consensus is that the timing for this depends on many things: the tempo of the piece, the style of the composer, personal preference. So no real consensus lol.

Guitar is an interesting case, because as you’ve pointed out it’s actually impossible to get perfect simultaneity in chord tones with a pick - all strummed chords are technically arpeggios. Of course, to most listeners a fast strum happens so quickly it might as well be a chord.

I tend to just aim for the attack of the chord to be on the beat. If the chord is played so slowly that there’s an audible arpeggiated effect, then I’d likely aim for the melody note to be on the beat.

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#5

This pretty much hits it for me. Also, if the tempo is quick and you need to be more “dead on the beat”, try and use small chord voicings/diads/triads instead of 6 string chords. Sonic difference is small if I’m honest, but it feels easier to get the groove. Also, you can squeeze and release the chord to play quick rhythms

#6

Thanks for everyone’s replies. I have experimented with different placement and as mentioned, I don’t think there is one “correct” way to approach this. I do enjoy working on the ability to play on/ahead/behind to create a different vibe. I do know about smaller voicings obviously, just using the six-string chord as the most extreme example, but even when playing octaves or shell voicings I like including the sound of the muted strings to create more of an attack.

The only place where I wonder about a good consensus is when teaching beginners. I teach a college-level methods class for music therapy majors and usually tell them to center the chord on the beat and then move it ahead or behind as it feels necessary. Since they are music majors I usually mention it as I’ve occasionally had a few people with issues, though it usually stems from them just being hesitant. I probably wouldn’t mention it to a total beginner.

#7

I’m sure this could be a thread on it’s own, but do you have any good tips on how to work on this? I’ve been recording myself and looking at how things fall on the grid, but the feedback loop isn’t very tight, and it’s no fun. In other words, you can’t really practice this way, but it’s useful as a snapshot to track progress.

#8

@lars

Yes, I’d recommend checking out the metronome bootcamp here: https://fretboardanatomy.com/course/metronome-boot-camp/

It’s been a while since I looked at this course in detail. As I recall there was quite a bit of filler info, but a big takeaway for me was setting up the metronome so that when you are able to play perfectly in sync with the metronome the click will disappear beneath the attack of the pick. I can’t recall if playing ahead and behind the beat was really covered in depth, but I practiced that too. I don’t know if there is way to measure how early or late I’m playing without recording and analyzing the results in a DAW which I don’t often do. It’s usually enough for me to focus my attention to the groove and think about how I want to sound in relation to it.

After working on this for a week or two I was able to start hearing details in music I had never noticed before, like a drummer laying back on 2 and 4 or a bassist pushing the beat, etc. It was quite a revelation for me. It also solved the issue I had with speeding up when I played solo. I’m not saying it never happens anymore, but I’m way more in the pocket than I ever could have been before.

Also, I found this video by David Bruce fascinating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3lzbNLxYhQ

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#9

One more thing. If you have a DAW (even something as simple as Garageband iOS will work) you can create a drum track with the kick and hats on one track and then a separate track with the snare on 2 & 4. Then you can experiment with dragging the snare track, moving it ahead or behind a little and see how that feels. You can do the same with a bass guitar track. Try different combinations of moving the snare and bass parts around and see what feels good. Try changing the tempo, too. It’s not precisely measurable in Garageband but you can get a sense of the different vibe these changes make.

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#10

Thanks for the suggestions!

I’ve done some ‘disappearing metronome’ practice before, but I’ll go through the metronome course and see what effect a few more metronome games has on my time feel.

I use Reaper as my DAW of choice so I should be able to set up a drum and bass track that I can experiment with! Definitely sounds like fun after watching that David Bruce video :slightly_smiling_face:

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#11

I really good question and topic. I have done a lot of recording work over the years including at home into pro tools and editing my own parts. I have experimented with nudging strummed chords so that they begin on the beat or before. I guess now I feel like quick strums should start on the beat and slower strums a little before the beat, strumming into the beat. One thing to remember is that when viewing the grid, especially zoomed in, anything can look out of time even when it’s within a few milliseconds of the grid. Always use your ears as the judge. Putting everything exactly on the grid sounds sterile and fake. If you have a moment where all the instruments hit a chord or note together, there should be a little difference plus and minus between them- it actually sounds bigger than if they are all moved to the exact grid line. Also, back to strumming, there are so many different ways to strum that work for different grooves, tempos, attitudes. There really is no one rule to apply, whatever sounds and feels good is good. Anyhow just some thoughts…

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#12

Thanks for your insights Ben. Very much appreciated. Especially coming from someone who has toured with my favorite musician ever. :slightly_smiling_face:

#13

Thanks John! Yes he’s one of mine too:)

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