Tips to train pick angle consistency for RDT/lightly supinated DSX?

Playing Technique
#1

So I think my main hurdle to consistency right now is maintaining pick angle across strings. If I use a fairly rounded or beveled pick it’s not as much of a problem, but I know I can use a flat edged pick like a Jazz XL if I’m mindful of the angle and keep my thumb bent correctly at each string, and using a flatter pick just feels better and gives me better feedback to know I’m alternate picking rather than slipping into economy or legato in places.

This is a seemingly straightforward thing to train - I’m wondering if the best approach is just something simple like tremolo across strings going lower to higher, maybe throwing in string skips as well to cover all the possible string transitions. But has anyone consciously worked on this here that might have some tips for gaining that consistency?

#2

You’re referring to edge picking? I think I’ve written about this before, can’t remember if it was on the fourm, so apologies if I’m repeating myself. But I’m not sure you really want the same amount of edge picking on all the strings. Edge picking on the wound strings can sound and feel very scratchy, whereas it doesn’t have that effect on the higher strings. This is especially noticeable on acoustic instruments, where it can sound really out of place in styles like bluegrass.

The good news is that the shift from more edge to less edge as you go lower is basically automatic since most people change their wrist angle a little bit as they track — we were talking about this in the Anton thread, since he appears to do this. The happy accident of this is that it usually creates exactly the amount of edge picking shift you need to keep the attack and tone consistent across all strings.

If you think about the way the wrist tracks, on the high strings you’ll be closer to the bridge (more treble), but higher edge (more bass). On the lower strings you’ll be farther from the bridge (more bass), but lower edge (more treble). The net effect is this all cancels out and the tone sounds more similar across all strings. Rejoice!

If the real problem is that you are “slipping into economy”, this doesn’t sound like a problem with pick grip or pick attack. Once you find a nice relaxed pick grip that doesn’t require tons of effort to maintain, there shouldn’t be great need to modify that just to play notes on different strings.

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Should pick attack be the same on all strings?
#3

That all makes sense - and I might be that I’m adding to my problems by trying to overthink tracking and edge picking consistency, maybe if I commit more to wrist tracking instead of consciously trying to introduce a larger arm movement for tracking it’ll result in more consistency in my picking form.

For the “slipping into economy” issue - I think it’s unrelated, there are a few distinct issues I’m experiencing from “re-training” picking habits I developed early on. Mindful practice has decreased these over time - I think I ingrained a “sweep+legato everything” mindset early on so force of habit I’ll end up playing economy for fragments unless I’m really paying attention and catching myself. This is fine, it’s more natural for me to 2 way Gambale sweep and that’s a powerful technique, but sometimes it’s not the effect I’m going for.

Last thing - one other effect of adding more thumb bump on the lower strings though is offsetting another habit I have, of slightly pronating my forearm to “get over” and get more picking power on the lower strings. I think Andy Wood sort of does that pronation on the lower strings as well, at least it looks like that. He talked about his form changing a bit down on the low E string and he finds it annoying. If I employ a sizable “thumb bump” and start my palm anchor point out just a bit higher it seems to resolve that feeling of having to “get over” the strings.

#4

This is common but highly dependent on picking style. In pretty much any USX style, this doesn’t happen. It’s DSX and mixed escape players, especially wrist motion, where you see this. Yes, Andy does this on the low strings.

The most straightfoward solution is to track via upper arm or elbow, in addition to some small amount of wrist tracking — not so far that you hit the edge of your range of motion and kill your efficiency. If you don’t like sliding the whole arm, then elbow also works. A very small amount of elbow motion is enough to relocate the picking hand to the lower strings with no change in forearm rotation.

We can see in Magnet footage that players will often try to “reach” to the lower strings through some kind of finger adjustment. Check out Wim Den Herder’s “Mad Max” from bar 5 onward in slow motion and see if this what you’re referring to:

If this is what you mean by “thumb bump”, this can work, as Wim demonstrates. However it seems to work best when your whole picking motion is to some extent finger-driven, like Wim or Martin Miller. You’ll also note that Wim doesn’t do a lot of upper arm tracking — it’s mostly elbow, wrist, and the finger stuff. While there is some of the occasional rotation you’re mentioning on the lower strings, he’s able to avoid a lot of that on the biggest six-string jumps with a little elbow.

Where it seems less ideal is when your picking motion is some other joint (e.g. wrist) but you’re just adding in this extra finger adjustment to fix a problem that only occurs in specific places. When we see this in Magnet footage it just seems to correlate with errors like missing notes especially during complicated string skipping / roll patterns / etc.

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#5

If that’s the case maybe I’m on the right track and just need to mess around with it more to get consistency.

I’m primary wrist DSX/DBX, very much not a USX player naturally. I have experimented with adding more forearm and more wrist in different places but my primary mechanic is coming from the wrist, and DBX I have wrist extension for my downstroke escape and flexion plus a little forearm rotation happening on upstroke escape.

Do you know if introducing that elbow tracking might feel like or be equivalent to adding a bit of elbow to the picking motion itself? I have noticed that if I maintain my normal wrist picking motion and allow a bit of elbow helper motion to happen on the lower strings when starting an ascending run, it seems to make it a bit smoother. Ideally I’d rather not introduce anything that feels like it’s changing my picking mechanic, and this does feel like it is. I’ve also experimented with adding a more shoulder based tracking motion, this one feels more “divorced” from the picking motion, and I think I’d have to build the habit of doing it whenever I transition to or from the low A string to get consistency. I might even be able to eliminate it entirely if I get my pick grip right, because my hand is large enough to reach all the strings, the drawback there is that if I’m not anchored exactly right it can get awkward when reaching for the high strings.

#6

I have messed with this (I still don’t “own” it) but I would say no, it does not feel like an elbow picking motion

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#7

That also makes sense - I should in theory be just as capable of working in an elbow movement at the same point I’d add in a shoulder movement. I can try targeting always doing this at the A string and see what the outcome is, I think when I’m less specific about it and just think of it as “I need a helper motion here” there’s some habit being triggered there, as I’ve practiced a decent amount of elbow picking and it’s also a pretty natural mode of picking for me. So maybe I just need to get intentional with that adjustment, and decide a single elbow movement goes with this particular string transition. Certainly seems worth a shot.

#8

Yeah I know what you mean. Elbow was the thing I had done the most of prior to CTC. The hardest thing about learning new motions for me, initially, was disengaging the elbow. It was so baked into my technique it would kick in without me knowing. Obviously we know there is nothing “wrong” with elbow, but it will cause an issue if we are embarking on USX. I’d developed a decent forearm rotation motion and that helped me really be in tune to when elbow gets involved.

I am not clear on elbow and DBX implications. I haven’t had any issues with it wanting to take over or anything. I remember @Tom_Gilroy mentioning a theory where using it as a tracking device may aid specifically on moving to the higher (pitched) strings on downstrokes since we’d get the DSX “for free” due to the trajectory elbow creates. I can’t remember if that comment was contextual to the “Molly” form where all the upstrokes escape “for free” with that dart-thrower motion on the upstrokes

#9

I think it’s ok to use for tracking purposes. It’s not part of the picking motion as such, but if you don’t use it, or upper arm/shoulder to track, it’s going to be difficult to span all six strings without going outside the comfortable range of motion of the wrist.

#10

Yeah I meant more if it is becoming the motion driver.

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#11

Ah sorry, I misunderstood!