So I’ve been trying to learn and make a “metal” version of Rachmaninoff’s Prelude in G-minor.
Everything goes quite well until “un poco meno mosso” part comes in - everything sort of slows down and on the piano left hand plays some wicked arpeggios that I cannot figure out how to play on the guitar reasonably.
It’s all in triplets or sixtuplets but that’s not the biggest issue - it’s that I can’t find position on the fretboard that makes sense.
It begs for sweeps, but there are sequences of notes that seem to be only possible to play by barring four (!) notes in a row.
If anyone has a better idea how to transcribe this, please let me know (please forgive inconsistency of notation, i.e. alternating between F# and Gb, I am n00b in terms of using programs):
I forgot to mention I am using an 8 string in F# and 6 string tuned to C# for this.
At the moment, while the first two bars I am confident I could play with tremendous amounts of practice, the later part seems absolutely impossible to play as it is.
Worst case scenario is that I will ditch arpeggios altogether, as there is enough going on in the right hand to fill two other guitar voices, but I would prefer to keep them (that is, if it is possible to play at all).
Rahmaninov… scaring musicians since 1892 )
It’s true to say that I don’t see much options here. You can try to use fast slides between positions, but sliding through 5 frets doesn’t look like a good idea. Though, if you have big hands (just like Rahmaninov ) you may try it.
or something like that (I’m not good at tapping at all, so I guess there are other more advanced variants).
As far as I know people use tapping a lot when dealing with difficult arpeggio-like structures.
I do have quite big hands.
I tried sliding from 3rd to 10th fret if that is what you mean, it’s more difficult actually.
The third bar isn’t even that scary, it’s the later part that seems impossible to play. Memorisation alone seems challenging to say the least.
But me thinks the part is too flashy to keep in my arrangement, I would have to drop the tempo more (which will hurt the top melody on the piano, it will feel wrong).
On a six-string guitar, two octave arps can all be done in one position with no shifting. You might get some barres but I tend to do even your standard “E Minor shape” barre with individual fingers, to avoid the barre. It’s not too bad. Frank Gambale barres that shape and gets good results, so you can learn to barre if you like. I haven’t worked on that as much.
If you need more than two octaves, then you have to shift. If you need three octaves, the simplest way is to play the same shape in three octaves shifting each time. Again you can economy or alternate.
That’s really it, shift or not shift, barre or not barre, alternate or economy. And I guess we should add hybrid too. All work. There is no specific answer here.
The only thing I’d point out is that these arps are really the rhythm part in that piece right? On piano they’re very much in the background while the upper voice is what you really hear. What are you doing for the melody, just getting rid of it?
Yes, exactly my point - this is in the background on the piano, barely audible, that part is actually played very softly and slower than the rest, so full-on shred seems out of place.
Initially I intended to lower the volume/gain/input control on the amp to get light crunch instead of satanic death metal lead tone. This would in turn facilitate getting some clarity i.e. no notes overlapping.
But now I think that even though this whole progression would sound truly astonishing as a solo or shred passage, it is too much and thus kind of out of place.
It prolly could work if played correctly, that is as a part of backgroun rather than lead, but the effort outweights the result as far as I can see it. If I was a better guitarist then perhaps that would make some sense, but now, unless I magically manage to learn the passage, I will have to abandon it for the sake of upper melody.
The upper melody I intended to play on 6 string (whole right hand part in fact), there are some delicate chords accented with some melody, so I guess it would work out to move the right hand chords to the rythm part and use lead to only play this tiny melody accents.
That’s really it - the problem is the sequence of intervals, i.e. four fourths in a row has to be barred. Or at least I don’t see an alternative which is why I am asking if that tab makes sense, or is it possible to maintain flow of the notes with an easier pattern.
But as of now I learned to barre the four notes with two fingers - first pair with ring finger, then second pair with middle finger allowing me to reach 8th fret with pointer again, then hammer on on the 12th with pinky.
Still - that’s only first three bars or so, and with slower tempo than I aimed for.
The remaining few is getting more and more complicated from my perspective.
Maybe I would finally get it right after some months of constant practice, but to be honest, the whole arrangement is for some sort of contest, and deadline is by the end of the month (which is far less time than I spend on usual covers anyways). So there is simple alternative - either give up on the contest and spend more time on it, or ditch that part for the sake of simplicity, or learn it in a day or two.
I do the E minor shape with individual fingers. The top three strings are all in the same fret. And so are the A and D strings. This works better on some phrases than others. But doing it in a straight line, like straight up or down, I can definitely do that.
Frank Gambale loves those fourths barres. I haven’t really worked on it, but he can get them very clean on certain attempts. Not always, and some people complain they don’t like the sound of the occasional note overlap when he does it. But when you look at how often he does it, you realize he gets the separation a fairly good amount of the time.
Problem is not just the barre, it’s the combination of 8-string guitar neck and the barre. I don’t know about you guys, but I could hardly do this stuff (unless played on thinner strings).
And I still have some doubts on that shifting from 8th fret to 10th that you need to do barre with your index finger.
though it would require me to do 2 strings swiping
Another problem with this piece is that even if you find ways to play separate arpeggios chances are they would be totally different. Like barre here, shifting there, alternate this, sweep that. This lack of consistancy is always killing me. I usually prefer more consistant patterns rather then more comfortable ones. But in this case it’s not about comfort, more about the very possibility to play it
So my guess is it would star 100-ish BPM and then drop to like 60? 65?
I have it written in my tab as 108 dropping to 68 and then gradually picking up some speed again, after the arps.
And 8 string is not an issue here really, maybe the neck is quite comfy, or my hands are big, or combination of both, but as I said I don’t have too much problem playing first two bars or so anymore (just slower), the problem is being consistent and being able to remember whole passage.
On another note, I made a quick check of the first part to see how both guitars would work together - please don’t mind horrific mix or lack of it, this is more of a sketch to see if what I had in mind works at all.
Sounds nice.
I don’t know if I could recognize the piece from first seconds without prior knowledge but I guess covers don’t have to sound one-to-one. I especially like that final passage, though personally I would do it more punchy and muted (not because it’s ‘better’ but because of my personal preferences obviously)
Yeah, I was trying to make 8 string follow the left hand and 6 string the right hand of the piano, but the two passages did not work that way, as one melody goes up while the other goes down, so I stuck with lower melody, just in two octaves. That 8 sring has too much gain tho, I need to really use bare minimum on the amp. Otherwise it gets muddy real quick.
I’m still thinking on changing the 6 string main riff though, even considering throwing it out altogether and sticking with 8 string all the way.
There is one guy on yt (at least I think only one) that did great job of playing this piece, and it kind of feels futile to try and make my own version, as his is far more complex and I can’t match to this level, but it is kinda also in a different style so maybe it is worth a shot.
Back to arps - turns out the first three bars are quite easy and I can play them kind of up to speed, the fourth is challenging due to absolutely mad stretch (8-10-15) and position change. But this still feels way better than skipping one string for some reason. I will practice some more and see if there is any progress.
) you may try it.
