Trouble getting the CtC EJ method to a decent speed, but

Technique Critique
#1

The first part of the clip is the standard intro-to-EJ penta-phrase using the CtC method. That’s as fast as I can do it and I can’t seem to get any faster. I’ve tried it with a metronome, but I seem to top out at about the same speed. The rest of the clip is me doing the same descending run, but just jumping into it without any regard for what PS I start with or use throughout. That’s how I grew up doing it, and now that I’m playing again, I’m trying to get that lick back into shape. I’m almost there, but I want to be able to use the CtC method so I can actually have it in my bag. But, the speed just isn’t there. I can tell the benefit of using it, and it’s obviously the only way to do other EJ-style runs, but I’m going nuts trying to get closer to the speed of the faster one.

Is it an old muscle memory thing that’s keeping me from getting the proper method faster? The ability to do a version of it is obviously in my hands but not in the way that it should, it feels like.

Also, pardon the tone and volume. I wanted to keep it quiet but not mess with my amp volume, so the guitar is only about 0.5-1 on the knob.

So, it's been about a year
#2

Hi! I’m not sure what you mean by the “CtC method”, there are several ways to do these kinds of pentatonic licks correctly (DSX and USX, wrist/forearm/elbow). Have you gone through the pickslanting primer? Have you established a fast tremolo picking technique? If not I would start there.

#3

By “CtC method” I mean EJ specifically in this situation. I’m working through the primer now and I’m starting to understand but I still have a bit to go in the series.

#4

I see, if you are working your way through the primer I’m sure you will find answers to why your technique is not working right now.

Just a friendly advice… Don’t do what I, and many others, did by starting your “picking journey” chasing a motion that doesn’t come naturally to you. I could do a smooth DSX motion when I started with the primer but I was hell bent on learning to play USX (like EJ and Yngwie). Took me over a year to realize this and that was a time I could’ve spent learning cool DSX licks instead. Start with the motion that’s the easiest for you to perform right now (after doing the tests in the pickslanting primer). It will save you a lot of time and it will be a lot more fun!

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#5

That’s an excellent point! A slight difference I’ll add, as it may be appropriate here, is not to chase a motion that comes naturally at slow to moderate speeds but that will not also go fast. @DC11GTR your picking looks comfy and coordinated to me, but I suspect it may be speed limited. If you use that same motion and just bang out a tremolo on one string, is it capable of 16ths @ 150 - 180 bpm (and even beyond, so you have headroom)? That’s EJ’s sort of bread and butter range.

If the answer to that is “no”, then you need to find a motion that will go that fast. The Pickslanting Primer is full of options for other motions.

If the answer is “yes”, then that’s great! You just need to figure out why you can’t get the same speed out of that motion when you add the fretting. Common issues here are a mismatch. For example, your motion may inherently escape on down strokes instead of upstrokes, which won’t work on EJ’s vocabulary. The good news is that it’s still possible to play EJ phrases (or at least phrases that sound like him) with a motion that only changes strings after downstrokes. It requires re-fingering OR starting on an upstroke.

Anyway that’s all hypothetical/theoretical. Do the tremolo test and see where you are and that will dictate the next steps. You’ve come to the right place to get the fast playing you’re after, you’ll just likely have to make some changes to get there. Good luck!!!

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#6

I looked at your fast descending versions in the end of the video. You actually do something remarkable there from what I can see. First of all, it sounds great so I would not suggest that you change it. But what you do is Down Up on the high E. Then you sweep to the B-string and play Up Down, and then Up down on the G string. Not the EJ thing at all but this clearly works great. It also would indicate DSX so the polar opposite of EJ.

But then when you start the pattern over from B-string you go, Down Up. Then you go Up, Down on the G-string, but the up this time is not a sweep but a separate pick stoke. So your hand actually move twice as fast for that stroke.

Then you do the same thing on the last repetition. Really cool but strange!

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#7

Thanks for the replies.

BoBBoLove, that is stellar advice! Back in the 90s, there was so much new stuff coming out that when I couldn’t nail the EJ stuff in a fast enough timeframe, I’d go to something else. But now that I’m specifically trying to nail that shit, I finally understand why I couldn’t.

joebegly, I hear you. Using that “same motion” is what’s messing me up. I can nail 16ths at 240+ using my most comfortable position which turns out is in fact the opposite of EJ. I’ve been trying to maneuver my picking hand while picking at that speed to see where is starts to slip and it’s almost right away. I’ll get to work on the rest of the primer. The deeper I dig, the more mind-blowing this whole concept becomes.

qwertygitarr, that was how I played in the 90s. I never gave any thought to where or how I started a run. In Jr.High and High School, I’d use a pick on the edge of my desk all day every day and it built up tons of speed and stamina. And since I never considered the idea of US or DS, I’d just start playing a thing and eventually, usually within a string skip or two, I’d “correct” myself without knowing I was doing it. I think it was Petrucci, Metropolis: Pt1 at 4:42 specifically, when I noticed that I needed to start on a specific PS, but I only had to do that for awhile. Eventually, I could start it either way and it would still work.

Thanks again. As I’m sure has been said a million times on this forum, if this series existed when I started…

#8

That’s insane speed. I stand by what I’d said, if you can’t get that motion you’re currently using to go fast, throw it out and try another one :slight_smile: You can generate a great deal of speed for USX motions with the wrist (which is what EJ does) and also the forearm, like EVH does with his tremolo (or what gypsy players do). Then there’s the less common but extremely capable Shawn Lane method of pronating and using a “Dart Thrower” motion. That will also give you the USX motion that could be used for EJ phrases.

OR…you could try something else entirely. Since you have a blazing fast DSX motion, why not try re-engineering the fingerings on typical EJ-ish phrases and keeping your DSX motion?

Adam’s sadly no longer with us but he gave us an extremely high quality lesson on this brilliant “work around” strategy. I almost hate to call it that because that makes it seem inferior. It’s equally capable of the EJ mechanic.

#9

Thanks so much for that link.

I spent hours last night picking one string in different positions to find the best one but I didn’t find any that felt as comfortable for as long as my most natural. At least from string to string. One would feel okay on the G but not on the E’s. Or my slant would slip and I’d run into the string above.

You’re very right about using different fingerings for EJs lines. I always greatly preferred the “open string” shuffle section of Cliffs to the actual one because I’m missing 1/4-1/2” of the tip of my middle finger and I can’t always get that stretch. That section with the open G makes more sense in every single way aside from “but EJ does it like this…” lol

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