Trouble syncing L & R hands at medium tempos

I’ve been away for some time so I apologize in advance if this has already been discussed elsewhere.

I find that at what I’ll arbitrarily call “medium” tempos I sometimes have trouble syncing everything up. For example, I can easily play through a passage slowly or sync everything at a much higher tempo but have a “grey area” where I just can’t get it together and stay in time. Usually this is 16th notes around 130-150bpm. Depending on the passage it could be a bit slower or faster, though.

Edit: I want to add that this often seems to be a LH issue as much as a RH issue.

Has anyone else experienced these " tempo grey areas" in your playing and had success in eliminating them?

Thanks!

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Geez! I thought I was the only one with these issues. I’m really starting to wonder if my fingers left and right have a mind of their own. :unamused: for what ever bizarre reason though when I’m playing at ridiculously fast speeds like 150-160 in double time things seemed to be synced up better. My hands just start getting fatigued or I’d keep doing it. I’d love to hear Troys take on these Grey areas because those are nice tempos to play in and are more common in most rock songs. :thinking:

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Hi John. Sorry for missing this earlier.

Are you sure you’re really synchronizing at the faster speeds? What I mean by this, is just that when you go fast, you’re on autopilot and it’s tough to really know what’s going on. Things can feel one way and totally be another way. Have you filmed yourself close up to see what it looks like? Is the intended pickstroke really hitting the note you’re fretting at the right time?

For example, say we’re talking about shreddy type speeds like 180 and above sixteenths, and you’re doing something simplified like a pattern that repeats on a single string. You can sometimes find that if you start out with the downstroke on a particular note, it will drift to where it’s upstroke by the end of a few repetitions. It may still sound clean, but something wasn’t locked and one extra pickstroke threw the whole thing off. It can be very hard to feel that this happening. Filming yourself is a good way to verify. This way you can eliminate whether it’s a picking issue at all.

Re: very slow speeds like 120bpm and below, I don’t even know if that being “synchronized” really means what it means at the higher speeds. Those speeds are slow enough you can almost consciously anticipate what is coming. With alternate picking, your picking hand is only moving half that fast and that may simply not be fast enough to require the same kind of chunking that goes on at the higher, “autopilot” type speeds.

With synchronization in general, chunking is the answer. You can be heavy handed about it and actually place bigger accented pickstrokes on the first note of repeating sequences. In the “Starting With Speed” chapter, at the very beginning, I included two clips of a single note played with different accents. No or very little accent in groups of fours, and then strong accents on sextuplets. This is actually pretty tricky to do. I never actually practiced hands separately like this when I was first working out hand synchronization years ago. I found it much simpler to do repeating patterns that involved a distinct fretted note on every pickstroke. The Yngwie six-note pattern was a go-to for this, as was the Di Meola sixes, i.e. three contiguous diatonic notes descending or ascending, played twice in a single position.

Anyway I can do the single note chunking now even with no fretting hand, and it’s interesting that if I think about it too much, it breaks. To do the sextuplets with no left hand, I actively have to “not” pay attention, and just feel the force of the accent and nothing else. Then it comes out nice and tight. It’s clearly just a memorized sequence of movements that doesn’t want to be messed with.

If you haven’t tried this type of single-string chunking, either with or without fretting hands, I’d recommend giving it a shot. Once I had it faster speeds with accents, there was no issue slowing it down to medium-fast speeds around 150. None that I can remember anyway.

If you’ve already done this, and you’ve verified with video and it’s working at the higher speeds, try slowing it down to your grey zone and see if the accents are still there. You will actually be able to see them because they are larger pickstrokes. If they are still there, then perhaps it’s not a picking hand issue. Try different left hand patterns with different fingerings and see if it’s still there. If it’s present on some patterns and not others, then it may be related to specific fingers.

Anyway, test and test again. If something isn’t working, devise a test for it that can rule out one or more causes.

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Dude, this is the exact reason I signed up for this today.

My picking is pretty decent at slow to sort of medium speeds and fairly decent overall at faster speeds for the most part (still sloppy in parts but I’m trying to work that up as a whole), but I tend to find that when I try to play stuff at a more medium tempo (think Guthrie Govan alternate picked every note lines etc.) my hands just can’t do it. I can’t tell if it’s my left hand or my right (picking hand) although I’ve got a feeling it’s my picking getting caught up.

A good example of something that would trip me up is the little line at 0:30 in this extreme song:

I reckon a lot of my speed though is me playing on autopilot, so I think there are a few bad techniques/habits etc. present that are continuously making me hit a wall.

I haven’t found a way to fix this yet, hence why I joined.

I’d be super happy to have some back and forth with you if you’d like as we learn and improve so we have some frame of reference.

Kyle.

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@Troy Thanks so much for your detailed reply. Sorry it took me a while to respond but it also gave me some time to practice and reflect before posting. Sorry for the lengthy post.

@UncleFunkle @Regotheamigo: If you’re interested…

I think what’s happening for me in that 130-160 bpm space is that I’m transitioning between something that could be considered a series of individual movements to something that is more of a single “chunked” movement. I’m finding that it’s more of a fretting hand issue than a picking issue and in fact may be a bit of an issue with how I process it mentally as well, as I start switching away from thinking in individual notes toward groupings of notes.

A few things I’ve been doing over that past few days:

  1. Start slower than I need to at say, 90 bpm and play the following exercises through my tempo “grey areas” to the best of my ability - even if there are some rough patches - until I hit 160 bpm.

  2. I am focusing specifically on 16th notes here and start by playing the picking only a single note and accenting the downbeat as suggested. Sometimes I will try other accent patterns like a second line pattern or groups of 3+3+3+3+4.

  3. Because I don’t think this is a string switching issue I have been focusing on single-string figures much as you have suggested. A few patterns I’m doing often are 1242, 1343, 1424, 1434. If things get really rough I play the patterns as dotted 8th, 16th rhythms (and vice versa) to verify that I can get the speed happening between individual fingers (say 3 & 4 - which is usual the most problematic) and then put it all back together again. There are other patterns too and I will occasionally do some two-string exercises but this is my focus for now.

I will sometimes do this to a metronome, but I have made a playlist of backing tracks at these tempos that keep me interested harmonically while working on all this and because they end after about 5 minutes, I get reminded to stop and take a break every so often. (I tend to get kind of obsessive with this stuff.)

I am slowly making progress and some days are better than others. It’s funny because I think I actually prefer to use more legato techniques in my double-time lines when improvising both as a texture and because they do make some ideas easier to execute but I really feel that I need to be able to do fundamental moves like that as well as possible.

Finally, Thanks so much again @Troy for all for your work here. It has truly transformed me as a player and a teacher and has caused me to continually refine my approach and reevaluate my understanding of the mechanics at work in our playing.

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