Trying DWPS but can't stop the swoop motion!

Technique Critique
#1

Hey all, just got started on the primer yesterday, and trying DWPS. Here is a video, where at 0:52 I’m trying the DWPS and the 6-note pattern (which is also new to me). As you can see even when concentrating I’m still swooping it, instead of being more fixed to the pick angle. To be honest UWPS feels more comfortable to me, but want to stick with one thing first. Any suggestions for “un-learning” this habit/motion?

Now if one wants to watch/critique the whole video (which I mainly did to analyze myself), you’ll see I have several other issues, which you can feel free to comment on. Here are my thoughts:

  1. I use leading edge picking always (~30 Degree angle to strings), don’t know if this is good or bad, but it helped me gain speed by reducing the effort to move “through” the string.
  2. I do the typical “bouncing” to get in and out of being trapped (as Troy says, very typical without pick slant empowerment). This is certainly inefficient, but, I don’t use it for speed either.
  3. When playing above 140bpm 16ths, my mechanical method switches to locked wrist, all from the elbow, with a slight UWPS(?) This was learned 10 years ago, and I saw a vid very similar from Ben, in that I worked on tremolo to keep movement as close to the string as possible. Great, I can do 190bpm…uh well…that’s all it does, no other speed, annnnnd on just one string…
  4. My arm is so tense with the tremolo, that it’s VERY difficult for me to MOVE to another string… I literally have to RELIEVE tension, move…re-assert tension, begin picking again. It’s horrible, ugly, delayed, and oh yeah, I had to stop playing a year ago because of tendon damage. While I can keep trem going for minutes, it takes it’s toll trying to be so tense to limit pick travel yet still be powerful.

What I so desperately want is to find a way to use wrist or similar method beyond above 140bpm (current limit with wrist), all the way to 180bpm, W/O locking my wrist. I must find a way out from this elbow method (which oddly I saw Ben does as well) as it hurts.

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#2

Hey Brian some people on here will be able to offer more insight than me, but I would try to stop the u-shaped hopping. This will probably be hard to do because it’s in your wrist muscle memory. You can stay in your elbow UWPS if you like. Keep the exact slant and just stop moving your elbow and rock your wrist from side to side. As long as you are slanted the pic will escape the strings on one side. So the hop or U isn’t necessary. Pick UWPS or DWPS…

Brian keep in mind if you need to hop to play something musically, comfortably, by all means hop. Players like Eric Johnson hop n stuff. I would try to stop hopping, but if you can’t you can’t. Gotta do what you gotta do.

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#3

lol Yeah I’m certainly tryin’ to stop the swoop, but it’s so ingrained that it’s difficult to break! So I spent an hour trying different wrist and forearm positions. I think I now understand why I can’t stay “planer” as Troy mentioned in his video. My wrist cracks/pops EVERY TIME I try and do a back and forth “wave.” It is not motion my hand wants to do. In fact if I do “wave” I rotate my wrist/forearm. Like turning a screw or starting a car, THAT motion I can do, and very quickly, and feels natural. Visually though, it’s like going back and forth between DW & UW between notes…hmmm

So maybe, instead of trying to do wrist all the time, I should try doing elbow UWPS only.

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#4

Well if the side to side wrist is a problem I think the only options would be elbow UWPS, and then there’s DWPS forearm rotation. but you would probably pick like Marty Friedman without the wrist Incorporated into that. :bear:

#5

Hi Brian! Thanks for posting.

I edited the YouTube link to be just the link, pasted on a line by itself. The forum will load those videos right up in the thread. I know this is not obvious from the interface.

General answer: I think before you get into the hundred and one ways to move a pick back and forth it can help to find a starting point if there’s something specific you’re trying to play. Otherwise it becomes a little like martial arts, learning moves just to master the moves, or for the journey of mastering the moves. Which is fine, and I have nothing against that, but it’s a harder to know where to start, and that project never really ends (ask me how I know).

If instead the answer is more like, I don’t know, I just want to get good at any one of these abilities and figure out the music part later once I’ve got some skills to lean on, well then…

…this sounds like a good start! All these movements, wrist, elbow, forearm, fingers, blends of the above, can all be made to work, and there isn’t one that’s any better than the other. But if we’re flipping a coin here, I’d say go with whichever one is working best, right now, at this moment. If it’s a turning movement of the forearm and you can do it fast, that’s just fine.

You can think of forearm rotation as constantly varying the “pickslant” but that can be misleading, because even rotational movements can have a “slant”, so to speak, if they spend more time in one hemisphere than another. So set that notion aside and just think of it as another way to move the pick back and forth. If this movement also causes the pick to escape the strings at any point, either on the upstroke or downstroke, then it can also be used for changing strings, which is what you’ll need eventually to play more varied things.

For now see if you can get that movement happening on a single string rapidly with as little tension or effort as possible. Put up a clip of that and we’ll take a look and see what it actually is - short sleeves is perfect as in the above clip.

If you have fluidity / speed on that string, then try and lock up the fretting hand using the (I know, boring) six-note pattern, or any other even numbered note pattern of your choosing.

Accent the first note, tap your foot along with it, play along with a drum loop. Whatever gets that initial downstroke burned into your mind. The backing track and metronome thing can be a little misleading at times - it’s sometimes hard to know if you’re really playing in time with it. I find foot taps to be a little less distracting. It’s not really about tempo, per se, it’s just about making those six notes become one memorized movement in your mind.

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#6

Some good points there, so let’s see if I can hone the intent/focus a bit.

What I am currently trying to play…is the same thing I’ve been trying since 1992 - “Another Day” - Main solo, particularly the 6-note pattern run. I’ll record a video later, but you’ll see me completely fail that run

AnotherDay_Solo
AnotherDay_Solo.jpg1090×678 167 KB

From videos I’ve seen it’s completely picked, but I don’t have the eyes you guys have. I want to play it smoothly and cleanly but I am unable. Upon self-analysis it is my currently inability to move my pick position quickly from one string to the next, which he does back and forth in the beginning.

My playing style, due to years of such limitations is largely legato based, between full, and single note picks per string. I’ve been content for my OWN music for decades with this. I’m saying this because I don’t want anyone to think I’m trying to “figure out the music part later.”

Here is me playing “We Must Fight On” from an upcoming album. Now this doesn’t have the correct camera view, as it was recorded before getting involved with CTC. There are mistakes, and some timing issues here and there (I’m aware and thus why I’ve never posted for masses to see.) It’s a better live example of my current technique, and limitations. In the bridge, you’ll see I do a triplet run with the wrist, and then switch to the elbow for high speed runs.

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