Trying to Cross-pick Bach

Slowly working on getting this more articulate. I’ve been backing off the gain and reverb so I have nowhere to hide :slight_smile:

I’ve recently started to realize that I can pick it pretty consistently now with what I understand is ‘cross-picking’ as I can see my hand switching angles (I default to downwards pick slant) but it’s actually some of the tricky left-hand shapes that are tripping me up so I’ve been woodshedding some small sections. I have noticed a sneaky bit of sweeping will appear from time to time but I’ve been trying to weed that out as I prefer the rhythmic consistency of alt picking it.

Interested to hear any thoughts!

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I recorded some more takes of this today, free-time, using the Magnet.
There’s a whole bunch of stuff going on really… some alt-picking, some sweeping :slight_smile:
I can’t really tell if I’m ‘string hopping’ or this is just the circular motion that’s inherent in cross-picking. Maybe lots of bad habits learned over years of playing…

Not expecting anyone to watch all of this, it’s various takes and attempts at sections, but would very much appreciate any suggestions if anyone has any!

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I love Bach and its one of the reasons I alt pick, since hybrid picking is for me at least slightly easier. I noticed a couple areas where you actually sweep across strings @ approx. 2:14 mark. Just curious if this is deliberate? I come from a classical background and the most effective way to practice is to slow everything down until each movement is mastered at slow speed, then gradually increase speed. That’s how I got good at technically difficult playing. just a thought. Bach is exceptionally difficult to play well, possibly more than any other type of music. A piece like the one you are playing is not a 6 month piece its a 2 year piece. keep going though you are doing well best/Doug

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Hey many thanks for replying and your ideas here.

I also love Bach! About 5 or 6 years ago, in my mid 40’s I decided against all good sense to start learning to play the Cello for the first time. I’m still at that and of course the Bach suites are pieces I regularly do battle with. So it was inevitable I guess that I’d then start trying to play Bach on the guitar too, since it’s an instrument I’m a lot more familiar with, having played it since my teens. Mostly in rock/blues/metal bands though, so I don’t have a classical background. I only learned to read sheet music since I started to learn the Cello :slight_smile:

Regarding the sweeping - yes that’s something I’ve noticed that keeps ‘sneaking in’ on my attempts. I’m still trying to decide whether to go with that, and make it a deliberate part of my approach (and therefore work on making it more consistent) or fight against it and try to keep everything cross-picked. In my general playing I naturally veer towards the Yngwie style economy/legato style vs the Morse etc cross picking, but then I do like how it sounds.
It’s a conundrum!

Funnily enough I have similar issues with the cello - string changes are a thing there too and also the matter of interpretation - many of the most used scores for the cello suites have quite a bit of slurring in them, which makes them sound smooth but sometimes too smooth to my ear. When I listen to people doing more ‘period accurate’ versions they tend to slur less and use more bow strokes which gives the pieces more bite and rhythm which to me sounds better.
I’ve read that Baroque music is ‘spoken not sung’ which I feel sums it up - some modern players smooth all of the edges off to where it sounds a lot more like romantic era stuff rather than baroque!

Of course I’m very much an amateur on the cello so I’d be happy if I could just play the pieces reasonably in tune and in time ha…

Anyway… I’m getting way off topic but it’s something I enjoy thinking and talking about :slight_smile:

As for the piece being a 2 year piece, that’s a great reminder indeed to slow down and take more time with it. I’ll do that, thank you!

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@Horganovski that’s funny that you mentioned that I also played cello and have been playing cello for about 28 years now since I was 30 I’m 58 now and I play the suites and I play also the sixth suite which is my favorite suite but also what I’ve done is I’ve learned to play it on electric guitar by tuning my guitar in fifths so I use the cello tuning on guitar C G D A and then I have my top two strings as B and E this allows me to be able to play it and I will be recording that at some point in the future I’m going to be going into the studio to record it but it’s not an easy way to play it but it keeps it to the same fingerings as it would be on cello. The guitar has different problems. we don’t need to use thumb position but there are areas where you’re kind of in between what would normally be thumb position and extreme stretches but it’s an incredibly good piece. I play the third suite and the sixth suite or at least the sixth suite prelude and the third prelude which are my two favourites and I do that on my guitar tuned in fifths but I don’t use a pick for that I simply use my fingers because I have to mute the strings or else the wrong strings will ring out so I’m basically using a slide guitar technique for that where I mute all the strings with my thumb that aren’t being used for the top three strings I have have them muted as well by my fingers in some way so this allows single lines to be played very clearly and expressively. awesome to meet a fellow cellist.

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Hey that’s so cool, I’d love to hear some of your cello and or guitar playing!

Funny you mention the 5ths tuning on guitar, that’s something I’ve been experimenting with here too, I have one guitar tuned C G D A E E (two unison strings simply as the guitar looked weird missing a string ha) .
I also have 3/4 size electric that I modified so that it just has 4 strings and I tune that GDAE, so it’s like a violin down an octave I guess. It makes some of the stretches a bit easier. Sometimes if I’m learning a new piece on the cello I’ll learn the fingering on that small guitar first as it saves some wear and tear on my hands while memorizing things.

Here’s a relatively recent attempt at the G Major Prelude on the former

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@Horganovski that’s nice man! Your tuning makes sense because in the first 5 suites you won’t need to use anymore than 4 strings to play those. (as you know) but in the 6th suite prelude, there is a bariolage at around the 30th bar (id have to check the score for the exact measures) so the E comes in mighty handy, especially since Bach wrote the 6th for the 5 string piccolo cello. adding the E string, to hep with that section, which is incredibly difficult on cello due to its scale length vs guitar. So you have t play that section with a super tricky thumb position technique. Some people even omit the drone E in that section due to its difficulty. but that E on guitar comes in very handy and makes it ultra easy on guitar. yea playing on the guitar helped me with intonation on cello too, to visualize the patterns on cello easier. Yes, ill upload a little of the 6th or the 3rd here. its not picked but it can give you an idea of where I’m going with it.