Trying to get my wrist working, eblow getting in the mix? video inside

Technique Critique
#21

Right, that does make some sense, although I’m sure if you put all those players under the microscope in slow motion there will likely be some variance if you got even mildly pedantic about what’s going on physiologically. I’m not into classical guitar, but I think it’s likely pretty outside the realm of the level of technique we’re discussing. Although not necessarily my goal, if you take 5-10 players alive today who could drill 16th note 240 bpm on 2-3 strings for 2-3 minutes without excess tension, the variance between how they accomplish it under the microscope would likely be apparent. I could be wrong but I don’t think we have references of classical guitar players doing that

I think rather than debate it too heavily, the conversation might be more productive focused around everyone’s experience of reducing tension while getting to their goal, and how they accomplished that, whether it’s from isolating and drilling movements, or anything else.

#22

I’m talking more so about classical instruments in general including piano, violin, etc - where the technique as been optimized and homogenized over the course over many more years.

Think about how just recently guitar plectrum technique has been such a mystery that Troy had to start making these heroic-level analyses of varying technical approaches in order to qualify exactly what is going on with these different iconic players who all had to find their own way towards technical achievement instead of having a universal, optimized pedagogical approach that many classical instruments established long ago.

#23

For me, the secret is chunking because the perceived “effort” feels distributed as opposed to treating each note independently. With chunking, things tend to feel something like this:

Trigger effort on an first note → play the rest of the chunk on release
Trigger → release
Etc.

That way, your perceived tension kinda resets on each repetition.

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#24

One point I want to add is that reducing tension is maybe not the best way to think about things. If you look at the mighty wrist picking of Paul Gilbert, for example, you will notice he both flexes his brachioradialis and shrugs his shoulder when picking fast. So, there is tension going on, and it’s probably necessary - if he was more relaxed there, you’d likely see some weird arm movements going on. So, there’s a sort of static contraction happening that aids in the appearance of only the hand is moving.

Where he excels is in a mind-muscle connection - he can generate the picking motion by only actively moving the hand. If you’ve ever seen a good bellydancer, they’ll have incredible control over their abdominal muscles, and this is sort of like that. Maybe everyone can learn to do it, maybe not everyone can learn to do it.

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#25

Not trem, but I think this was pretty wrist dominant.

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#26

I fully agree, and that’s another aspect I’m taking into consideration. I’m not a fan of always playing as light as a feather. I like playing where people are putting some “muscle”/attack into it. I’ve been going back and fourth in my practice of going super light (mostly when trying to push the BPM) and focusing on solid attack. Interesting reference about mind muscle connection, I was pretty unconsciously trying to get that going for my wrist yesterday after seeing how much elbow I was putting into it.

Good solo, and yeah man, that is definitely wrist dominant from what I’m seeing! I see basically zero elbow other than some jumps with string changing. I can see you’re not rotating your forearm at all either, but using some finger movement to get around string changes, I believe Rick Graham does that type of string change movement. Did that type of wrist picking come naturally to you, and do you have any advice about drilling that movement specifically?

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#27

I’ve written about it on the forum before, but basically when I first started playing I had a pretty dominant elbow motion, with moments of wrist that would come and go, but I didn’t really know how to control / tap into. I developed pretty bad medial epicondylitis (golfer’s elbow) from climbing, which made elbow movements pretty painful. So, I had feedback when I would play to not use elbow and rely solely on wrist.

I did a combination of long bouts of phrases just below where my wrist-only playing would fall apart, and bursts as fast as possible before elbow motion would creep in.

I would say tension is definitely necessary. I have tension from my pec / shoulder and down my arm.

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#28

Do you find that you have to pick a bit harder for faster speeds?

I generally feel that I have to pick harder for my top speed - and I control dynamics by reducing how far the pick dips below the plane of the string rather than trying to pick more lightly when going top speed.

#29

No, I would say that the tension increases near max speeds, but the sound is actually quieter.

The pick is basically just grazing the top of the string at fast speeds.

#30

I imagine it’s quieter because the tip of your pick is just grazing the top of the string.

#31

@RG550DX And the pick isn’t moving much across the string either, so not much energy transferred.

#33

You’re one of the fastest guys I seen with a hard attack, why don’t you post some music?

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#34

Your personal bias does not automatically turn your opinions into facts.

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#35

Thank you, although I think my attack is actually on the softer side. Probably the electronics / amp pulling the weight there!

The music I tend to listen to / write is not what people consider “shred”, so probably not as interesting for the forum lol

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#36

Bill is SHREADINGGG and on a Kramer I hate him I love him

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#37

Drop some SLAMcore and don’t apologize for it

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#38

I might have to steal this term lmao

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#39

Ok, just don’t infringe on my blackened death core-pop musical space

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#40

This is definitely one already and I unironically love it

The band is called “the Armed”, now with synths and Troy Van Leeuwen for a sec

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#41

Sorry, that one’s already mine. Been writing riffs for a bunch of Gaga covers. :joy:

(Note: this post is a joke, but I am not joking.)

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