Unpopular Opinion: Eric Johnson's style is amazing, can't stand the music

General Music Discussion
#21

I like EJ very much, mostly Tones and AVM - and to a lesser extent Venus Isle. After that I did not keep track (though I saw him live few years ago).

I think his songwriting skills are decent. More than that actually. There are quite good songs on Tones (Bristol Shore, Friends, Trail of Tears), not overwhelmed by too much guitar wizardry. He’s obviously not in the same league as Paul Simon or Joni Mitchell etc… but when you think about it there are very few great guitar players who also have solid songwriting skills. Most guitar greats would come with awesome riffs for sure, but not so many would write good songs. EJ surely could/can do that (and other than EJ I’m thinking Francis Dunnery can be good too, but I can’t think of many others).

His voice is an acquired taste but to me it perfectly fits the songs. Interestingly enough he sings in a similar register as his old friend Christopher Cross. A heavy-metal vocalist would sound very bad with Eric’s music IMO. A female singer on the other hand would be a nice match.

#22

I’ve thought the same thing, maybe something like Mike Oldfield’s “Moonlight Shadow.”

#23

I can think of many singers whom I’d love to hear with Eric taking the guitar duty (+ backing vocals). His girlfriend (?) Ariel is a good singer. There’s also Leslie Mendelson who sings on the last Steve Kimock album. Check out the song ‘Variation’ that has a somewhat vibe similar to ‘Trail of Tears’. That would be a great match IMO.

Also … what about a collab with Molly Tuttle ? Wouldn’t that be great on every levels ?

#24

I might be misunderstanding your post. Did you take private lessons with Edman?

I’ve only heard Edman on the two YJM records he appears on. Great singer no doubt, not trying to diminish his singing ability at all, I just don’t think it’s at Freddie’s level based on having heard those albums only.

I took vocal lessons too.

Sure, there are a lot of excellent singers, but there’s another side to it. I’m aware of dozens of famous singers who can’t control their voices and pitch when performing live. Some are so bad that I can only believe their recording are the product of endless takes and pitch correction.

There’s also a lot of singers, particularly singer-songwriters who are themselves only passable vocalists.

I’m not arguing that Eric is a great singer. I think his voice is adequate. There are plenty better singers, but there are plenty worse too.

#25

That’s the great thing about music, it moves people in different ways. I personally love his music and songwriting, but if it hits others differently, I’m cool with that too.

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#26

I feel like the OP about a lot of virtuoso type music. EJ, Yngwie, John 5, P Gilbert.
All AMAZING players and I strive to be able to do a fraction of what they do. But their music isn’t something I can just sit and listen to for any length of time.

Possibly the only exception would be Joe Satriani. His stuff is just more “song” oriented. At least to me.

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#27

I know this thread is about EJ, but to me it raises another question: What happens if you want to push your technical facility on guitar to a “higher level,” yet don’t really like most of the music in which the advanced techniques are ordinarily used?

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#28

Learn to play fusion.

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#29

You had me until the Mick Jagger bit :slight_smile:

Ritchie is the real deal. Not a Freddie Mercury but then who is :wink:

Dan Huff can sing a bit too :slight_smile:

#30

This is so odd, just this morning I listened to ‘Cliffs of Dover’ and I hadn’t really listened to the track in probably 15 years or something. I thought it was compositionally very stale! Even though i really liked the tone and solos and such. But in fairness I just really don’t like instrumental rock guitar music in general so I don’t know if my opinion is too relevant here anyway.

I think across a lot of genres it’s really hard to be both a great player and a great writer.

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#31

If you think COD is compositionally stale… idk what to say. Its an exceptional song from another era and it did get a lot of radio play.

I think there is a general consensus that newer music is compositionally stale. Despite the never ending double kick drums and the ability to program complex rhythms using a mouse, new music hasn’t advanced much.

A funny thing that reminded me of this… I was watching a “Generation Axe” video yesterday on YT. I think this is Vai’s brand of G3. Anyway it was Vai, YJM, Phil Collen, Zakk Wylde, and Tosin Abisin on stage and they were closing their set with Highway Star where everyone would play a solo. The song was ripping along and then it was Tosin’s turn for the solo, and it sounded like he was practicing intervals. He had absolutely no way to work in the context of that simple song, didn’t seem to know any blues licks, couldn’t make the guitar sing.

He is heralded as a great musician (of the new), but he was completely disconnected from something that most bar band players can ace.

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#32

I respect what you’re saying - I think there’s just so much subjectivity in it. I know I have particular tastes. For one, I’m just not that big on blues licks! Especially in a heavier rock context. I haven’t heard the performance in question but I wouldn’t be that surprised if I would have liked Tosin’s solo the best, from what you’re saying!

It’s all good though. You’re right that it’s definitely from an era.

#33

Lukather is a decent singer.

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#34

I have a theory as to why I don’t dig most instrumental guitar music

Let’s use Eric as an example: EJ was in a fusion band called electromagnets before he went solo and his playing in that group made tons of sense, it fit perfectly and the songs were super interesting to listen to

I think the problem is he took that flashy Mahavishnu like approach and tried to marry it to soft rock. It just doesn’t make sense to my ears. It’s almost a matter of “Well I can so I should” vs. “What would best serve these songs”. More power to him though, he got a fanbase doing it

The same goes for other “shredders” too, a lot of times you hear amazing soloing over a flat groove with little dynamic in the rhythm section

What draws me to bands like Mahavishnu, Dixie Dregs, Eleventh House, Weather Report and what makes their instrumental approach listenable for me is probably the dynamic interplay. The melody instruments REALLY competed with the rhythm instruments and really tried to standout. It wasn’t so much about showing off as it was about communicating great ideas

And that concept just resonates more with my ears, I guess

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#35

Wow! Quote of the month: “Ah Via Musicom sounds like if Are You Experienced was an adult contemporary soft rock album…”

My thinking is you probably ONLY want to hear EJ live records if you listen to them at all.

His studio albums he works at polishing them so they are super ultra clean. I particularly loved Ah Via and Venus but some of the subsequent ones are hit and miss and found I was listening to the live records more than I was listening to the studio records. Over time, that’s the case. So “Alien Love Child Live and Beyond” and “Europe Live” might be more to your liking. But that being said:

Eric doesn’t really do the heavy rock thing, he’s dabbled in it but it doesn’t really show up in his catalog much and even his early work with the Electromagnets was a solid jazz fusion band.

Luckily there are guitar players for all tastes.

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#36

The “don’t like ___” thread seems like a dangerous row to hoe. Ah Via Musicom was revolutionary for it’s time, and if one heard it when it first came out one might generally feel differently, but regardless, the criticisms weighed here are easily applicable to any number of artists that have branched out beyond their forte. I’d prefer to see players innovate and experiment than to face punishment for their b-sides.

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#37

Does anyone else find this really motivating? It’s common to have the “burn my guitar” thoughts when you hear virtuosos. But at the end of the day when you aren’t entirely satisfied song-wise, don’t you just want to show em how it’s done? Technical guitar skills aside, anyone motivated enough should be able to compose a great piece. I believe it simply takes a lot of patience and hard work, and TIME, but YOUR ear knows what it wants to hear, you just have to climb through the jungle of songwriting to get it done.

#38

Agreed! It actually bums me out that so many excellent guitarists are into the prog jazz fusion thing. Guthrie, for example. He’s absolutely incredible, but the songs are so painful for me to listen to.

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#39

I personally don’t like to listen much of instrumental music, that is probably th reason why steve vai and satch never quite made an impact on me. I tried but nah. Of course i listened the racer X and yngwie back in the day but not anymore, Yngwie from time to time but he’s music is pretty tiring to the listener…
But there are couple of songs i do enjoy, Andy Timmons all is forgiven, that is a f*n awesome tune and does he have TONE?! Yes. And very tasteful player also.
I do like John Petrucci’s Wishful Thinking also. Those songs i tend to listen every now and then.
I will get to Eric Johnson’s songs, he is been hiding from me. I have heard cliffs of dover and i was like, oh well. That’s nice and i forgot about it soon.

Paul Gilbert’s burning organ is a great album. I like vocals in a track and i think guitar mastery has it’s place in some songs but not the whole song. I’m not that excited to listen guitar “verses” excluding the Timmons all is forgiven.
But that is just me.

#40

This thread doesn’t exactly open the welcome mat to participation by folks that we appreciate and would want to see interviews with. Aren’t there enough positives to talk about without the tear downs of the people we already are familiar with? My two cents, take or leave it. :slight_smile:

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