Vai Inspired Ascending Alternate-picked run

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#21

I think I said before in another post, the escape thing, wasn’t really intuition, it was experimentation while trying to play Randy Rhoads stuff, in particular the Mr Crowley pentatonic lick (well that’s one I remember anyway), and all of the licks and runs where he goes from string A to B then back to A then to B.

I guess it just came out of experimentation and frustration and the pure time I spent playing those over and over and over. Something else I used to do, on those string changes on RR descending runs, is upstroke sweep the last two notes in the change, which I still do when I’m being really lazy because it’s really not the right way to play them at all.
In fact I am sure it was the experimentation with sweeping that led me to the escape thing.

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#22

Could be! Could also be that now you are using even a slight DBX and since you’re not so focused on flipping the slant at the string change you are naturally just doing it because you simply know it doesn’t matter anyway if you knick it on your way up or not. You have that finger muting that string in case it does. One less thing to worry about and focus on.

#23

I tried those, that third one can’t be right. There’s too much flopping around. The first with the outside picking I find is easier.

Your rendition at the very first post is a bit of a finger teaser for me as I’m not used to that pattern so I have to think about it too much, which is good.

I was playing around with a lick the other day that sounded kinda Vai-ish that you guys might like maybe I’ll post up too. It wasnt really a fast lick though, more on the quirkier side.

#24

If I was to play this, it would be with downward pick slanting, economy and a few pull offs.

I’ll do a video when I’m free. I’m having a go at it atm, will try memorize it. Idk if it’s what you’d want to do tho?

#25

Yeh for sure please post I’d be interested to see it. I’m always amazed by Vai’s fretboard knowledge and how he can skip around from one key to the next to create these quirky melodies. The Riddle and Blue Powder are my current favourites again because they are so texturely diverse.

#26

Hi @WhammyStarScream,

For sure I’d be interested. I assume you mean the original lick. Sometimes I’m more comfortable as DSX so I’d be interested to try it too.

#27

@SlyVai when you say the original is a sextuplet pattern with 7 notes with a fast triplet at the beginning do you mean that all seven notes are evenly timed as in a septuplet grouping, or do you constantly get this speed up and slow down effect in the lick with the first three notes played faster than the 4 that follow? Your notation suggests the second. What time marker in blue powder does it happen?

#28

Hi @Fossegrim,
Yes it’s the second one with the trills being played faster than the rest.

The Blue Powder version is a descent, with another Vai staple lead in phrase making up the first third of the run. It’s at approximately 1:08 on the album version, 0:59 on the live video below. The trills are more apparent here. The tabbed versions are wrong but again I only realised this after seeing him play it live. The next fast ascent by the way is also tabbed wrong very similar to how his Crossroads ‘intimidation’ lick is always tabbed wrong as he starts it on the G string 10th fret not on the D string 15th.

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#29

Note I think we all need a wind machine blowing our hair back while we play at home to be able to fully reproduce the magic :slight_smile:

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#30

Hey @SlyVai, I’ve had a few issues recording with my current guitar, it’s a steinberger spirit and there are no horns to attach the cam to. Also your playthroughs are really good.

This run is really quite hard using pull offs, and sometimes you get the harmonics ringing out. But I like it, it’s a great practice run. I can’t record my left hand but you can see hear how it sounds.

I’ll need more practice to get it as smooth as yours, and I think because I’m not alternate picking it won’t ever be that even.

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#31

Cool ! Sounds good to me. Actually your version sounds more ‘Vai’ than mine because of the pulloffs and hammers. I must admit I haven’t seriously tried that version I’ll give it a go.

I’m trying to get it faster but my current goal is to play Liberty without messing up that similar run half way thru. I can pick it better now, I found recently that picking nearer to the bridge helps me because I can anchor easier on the bridge.
Also I’m trying out USX swiping that seems to work ok just it’s hard to get out of the habit of my hand pivoting for a down stroke escape which it doesn’t need to do anymore.

It’s now the left hand that trips me up when the pattern changes from 13, 14, 16 to 14, 16, 17. Weird that was never a problem before I could pick it fast enough.

There’s a simpler variation of my original that sounds pretty cool in descending fashion so I might post that tomorrow.

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#32

Look forward to it, I tried to practice the run going backwards so I could turn it into a loop instead of restarting over, quite akward tho. And working things out backward is so stressful lol

BTW I’m not doing any hammer ons, its all downward pickslanting and pull offs. From the videos you posted of Steve Vai, I think thats what he is doing too, tho his run is fast as F, Watching it I’m like, oh… ok…

#33

From that video no doubt he has practiced that loads. It’s really fast and clean. Now ofcourse, I’m not Steve Vai lol. Tho you can’t be that actuate and fast without practicing something to the point of second nature.
I doubt he’d waste time learning it in a different way, but I’m not a Steve Vai expert by any means, I’ve never studied him. Tho we are all human and only have so much energy to put into things. I think what ever is most efficient is often the answer to work related tasks.

This video from Jason Becker is one of my faves, because not only does he look like a male model lol but he admits that most of what he plays is “fake” as in not all picked and lots of pull offs. You can even see in his picking hand, it’s all one way pick slanting with pulloffs. Yet his left hand is flying. When he says mad flapping he does upward pickslanting, you can see as he uses two fingers to anchor on the guitar. He does that whenever he upward pickslants. And “mad flapping” as he describes it is mindless from my experience, if you try to alternate pick everything, you literally have to practice every alternate run you do. With one way pick slanting, be it Jason Becker, Marty Freidman, Eddie Van Halen or Shawn Lane, they all have a preference for a single angle.

This is also what Yngwie Malmsteen does, all downward pickslanting, and it’s the first thing Troy picked up on. And I think it’s the way to go. Unless you’re Michael Angelo Batio and alternate pick like a beast.

#34

Yeh I completely agree and to be honest I get to the point where my patience is wearing very thin with some of these runs and I have to give up and do something else for my own sanity. I can always come back to them after a while and retry.

But yeh Mr Vai is as far as I know a downward pick slanter and also what you said about playing my lick makes me think that there may not be any hammers in his Liberty run. It might make more sense actually if those trills are picked pulloffs and i will try it like that later.

What confuses me is other Vai licks seem to be 2WPS licks (I know I shouldn’t call it that but if I say ‘Alternately picked’ it doesn’t fully describe it). But it could also be that these licks too are all tabbed wrong. I think we always need to bear that in mind, knowing he is historically a DWPS player.

#35

I messed around with these a little bit today as written both yours and the original lick, and I feel they are both more conducive to DSX or swiping because of the outside picking.

#36

Interesting @Fossegrim. So on the Liberty lick how would you pick it exactly using DSX ?

Using trills, like this maybe ?

  • D for the trill
  • U for the odd note on the next string down
  • D, U, D for the 3NPS part.
  • Repeat ?

But that’s using inside picking so I guess not.

I’m still trying swiping but it’s a bit hit and miss for me at the moment and I’m wary of using it when I’m also trying to develop my USX Dsweep YJM motions. I don’t wanna confuse myself too much. I really wanna just find the right motions that work for me so I can adjust licks I wanna play accordingly.

I was trying a compromise earlier where I use USX and a hammer on the 3 note parts so pick the first 2 notes and hammer the last instead of trying to pick all 3 and that was using YJM Dsweeps to do the string change before the 3 note part.

Playing Liberty through its always just so hard to go from zero to full speed for that lick. The most success I’ve had in terms of playing it consistently at the right speed during a full play through of the song is using the rejigged version which has less string changes, but it doesn’t sound right. The timing of the trills is hard to get right using that version.
So if you have a DSX version that works please let me know the exact picking pattern :+1:

#37

Down, trill, down, up, down, up. Next string same thing. with a downward escape, hitting the the up stroke on the next string is easy (outside picking) because your pick is moving away from the body. Whether your using upward or a downward pick slanting isn’t the important part.

#38

Just curious, but are you guys also practicing these “trill” riffs with pure alternate picking?

#39

I don’t think they are playing the trill as alternate picked in the vai blue powder example. The original lick or variation of the lick @SlyVai shared is all alternate picked no trills and has the grouping changed to all sextuplets. You could trill it if you wanted though, but the point was to take the original lick and make it an all alternate picked sextuplet lick.

#40

Hi @Pepepicks66,
the Vai ascending original versions I’m experimenting with, for like the 10th time in my life probably haha.
I’m trying USX swiping and Yngwie style USX Dsweep. The DSX version that @Fossegrim told me about is also in the mix so none of those are pure alternate picked.
I previously did use pure alternate picking though for the Liberty lick which I just can’t do it’s too fast for me. I’m trying to see what Mr Vai does but I can’t find any decent video that shows his picking hand.

Based on what I know of his picking he’s USX and does always start on a new string with a down stroke so similar to YJM but I’m not aware that he sweeps the downstrokes so it’s possible he’s just swiping. That’s what I’ve had most luck with so far too, swiping.

Have you got some exerience of playing these runs ? If so I’d be interested to hear how you play them thanks.

I’ve got a couple of variations of my version I might post this week they sound pretty cool I think but it’s nothing special really.