Hey @garbeaj
Have you seen this vid? I only just saw it, he is doing that run really fast and direct to the cam, I don’t see any movement with his right to hop over the string, he’s just swiping over it, clean or not, It’s one of the most direct videos I’ve seen, thought I’d share it
That’s a cool video…I have not seen it before. He doesn’t do the complete run so it is hard to see what he is doing nonetheless. I think he is doing something different on the album version however. As Troy has pointed out, it’s a cavalcade of “airballs” and all we can do is try to make a compromise with a repeatable pattern.
Hows that muted note gone for you? Do you think it’s whats basically happening?
I am still quite adamant that his hand construction allows angles of force that someone like me finds incredibly difficult to achieve without wearing my hand out.
I think that what Troy pointed out is exactly what’s happening, but I think that my compromise solution for getting a repeatable pattern that gets some of the feel across reasonably is working. It’s just taking me a hell of a lot of practice to get it up to speed. All of this to try to mimic Eddie’s mistakes!
Hey man just checking in. I feel like the Vancouver 2012 clip (great clip!) shows EVH is using the following pattern, which once again is consistent with the “I’m the One” pattern:
Down hammer hammer
down up down up
(repeat these ideas on the next two strings)
EDIT: I think that when the fourth note is swiped through the string, it will result in the “bump” we hear in Spanish Fly ascending sixes.
I think he’s doing this in Vancouver:
Down-Hammer-Down on the lower string
Up-Down-Up on the higher string.
The issue is that there is no exact repeated pattern that he executes in one way in “Girl Gone Bad” or in “Spanish Fly” or in the fast “Spanish Fly” sextuplets in the live solos.
For me, the Down-Hammer-Down/Up-Down-Up thing works perfectly, for me, to execute the guitar/drum riff from “Girl Gone Bad” with a repeatable pattern that captures the feel of what is going on, if not what is actually happening…because I can’t figure out exactly what’s happening. I feel like my compromise pattern might be what he is actually doing in that part in the Vancouver clip. This pattern also works very well for some of the sextuplet licks in “I’m The One”.
The “Spanish Fly” sextuplets are even more mistake filled and random. I can only use my own “compromise” repeatable pattern that gets the overall sound, feel and timing close…because what is going on in the recording of “Spanish Fly” is so “un-repeatable” and has no pattern in itself. Same for the live sixes during the live guitar solo segments.
The best I’ve come up with for these “Spanish Fly” sextuplets is to actually play:
Down-Hammer-Down on the lower string
Then a strong, “pushing” Downstroke to the muted higher string
And then “Up-Down-Up” to complete the licks on the higher string.
Ultimately, whatever anyone plays for these parts is bound to be a compromise, because no one can figure out how to play exactly what’s going on note-for-note. If it baffles even Troy, then I’m lost!
In looking at the Vancouver again it does look like another downstroke on the upbeat (the third note of the riff) as suggested by your Down Hammer Down idea, and this is also sort of consistent with what Jude Gold said about EVH’s picking on “boogies”.
In listening back to the first ascending run in Spanish Fly (on the bass strings, not the treble sixes), I do think I hear another pick attack on the upbeat (right where it would be according to your Down Hammer Down idea). oh man. 
Not sure if you looked at my clips from earlier in this post, but you can see me playing these patterns above. I don’t quite have the “Spanish Fly” parts up to speed, but you can see the idea at work.
I’m friendly with Jude…do you have a link to what you mentioned him saying? I guess that’s a reference to the picking mistakes Eddie often made as Troy pointed out but still coming out sounding great?
Fab bit of playing! I think this is one of the most fascinating threads on the forum. I’d have bet money that the Spanish Fly ascending run was was DHHUDU until I saw this. Of course being a DSX player, I (tried to) play it DHHDUD, but DUDUDU seems to fall under the fingers for me. At least for the right hand, my left hand ain’t worth a sh!t… 
Which is funny, because as Troy and I agree…it is most likely that Eddie intended to D-U-D, U-D-U the sequence, but what comes out is something completely different!
If it was Al DiMeola all would have been executed fine…but it was Eddie Van Halen and all kinds of blunders happened that ultimately ended up coming out sounding COOLER than it would have if his technique was on the level of DiMeola.
And thus, I’ve tried to come up with a repeatable pattern that captures the feel and some of the sound of the chaos that happens on the record and indeed when he played those similar patterns on other recordings and live…namely the D-H-U…hard Down picking of the muted higher string followed by U-D-U to complete the sequence as I demonstrated in my clip of me playing that pattern on my Ovation classical.
His hand construction plays a huge part from my perspective.
He could grip the pick middle finger style and utilize the flexion and extension of the wrist in a loose and relaxed way that most can’t.
This enables a near 90 degree angle attack on the strings with a lot of “flop” creating the random picking.
It’s also why Eddie had such powerful picking at times, and others very soft.
Ok, a YouTube user commented on one of my videos and he shared some important information that I missed about the Ovation classical that Eddie used on “Spanish Fly” and “Little Guitars”…in fact, he completely schooled me!
I previously thought that all Ovation non-cutaway classical guitars joined the body at the 12th fret like most standard classical guitars do. Boy, was I wrong! The YouTube user pointed out that he owns an Ovation ‘Country Artist’ model which joins the body at the 14th fret! He also pointed out that this is the same model as the Ovation classical that Eddie is pictured with in the famous “pick-axe” photo session. I looked closely at that photo again, and indeed, that guitar neck also joins the body at the 14th fret! I’ve been absolutely killing myself trying to play “Spanish Fly” and the “Little Guitars” intro on my late 70s Ovation Celebrity classical which joins the body at the 12th fret.
Well, now I have to sell my Celebrity and get a ‘Country Artist’ model…that 14th fret neck join is a key thing to being able to execute these pieces correctly! Color me amazed!
Well I just pulled the trigger on an Ovation Country Artist model…it should be in my hands within the next week.
So just to re-cap on these “Spanish Fly” sextuplets, I’m still experimenting with the Down-Hammer-Down/Down swipe to the muted high E, then Up-Down-Up on the three ending notes on the high E as I demonstrated in my little clip.
The “Girl Gone Bad” sextuplet synch riff seems to me to almost certainly be Down-Hammer-Down on the low string and Up-Down-Up on the next higher string. That I’m way more certain of that than the “Spanish Fly” sextuplets, but I do feel like the work around I have for those works to get across the overall flavor of what’s going on in the recording even if it isn’t exactly what’s happening with all the “airballs” and randomness that is really in the recording.
I’ll work on the “Spanish Fly” sextuplets with my Ovation Country Artist and post a clip to see if I’m getting any better results!
It’s funny that playing the Spanish fly “correct” with clean alternate picking doesn’t have the right feel. DHH UDU gets closer, still not right, but he uses that method on a lot of six note runs on early live solos. I feel like Ed uses DUH (down, up, hammer) at times on these runs too. It’s funny how much ink is spilled on this and the “Clapton” lick as you call it. I think the key to the Clapton lick is inside picking the E and B
When Ed played the Clapton licks from the ending solo of “Sitting On Top of the World”, the video evidence actually shows that he used Outside picking, at least on the high E and B strings. I don’t think Eddie strictly did Outside picking generally speaking, but when licks fall on the high E followed by the B string-which was often-the pattern was always Outside picking. I’ve only recently studied this Outside vs. Inside picking because a friend drew attention to the video evidence of Eddie’s Outside picking on the high E and B strings in these sequences, but sure enough he was right.
I’ve never seen any evidence of D-U-H in any of Ed’s lead playing unless it was accidental, but I’ve still never seen an example of that in any lead part that I’ve studied.
As for the “Spanish Fly” sextuplets in the album version of that piece, you have to go back to Troy’s breakdown…there are so many mistakes that there literally is no pattern. My whole aim is to have a repeatable pattern that gets the feel of the mistake-filled original across. I’ve personally found that the Down-Hammer-Down on the B with a strong Down sweep to the muted high E followed by the Up-Down-Up for the remaining three notes on the high E as I demonstrated it in my clip works best.
He does something else in his live solo executions of these sextuplets, but for now I’m focusing on the album version of “Spanish Fly”.
I get what you’re after with the six note run, trying to find a system to replicate the feel and sound of Ed’s free flow. Not an easy task, it’s what made him great. Even his “mistakes” sound cool. What clips did you look at that gives a good look at the Clapton lick? Inside picking is the only way I can get it to sound close. He uses a portion of that lick in the end part of his old live solos, the 10/77 one being a good example where he slowly runs it up the neck before settling into the Clapton lick. It sure sounds like inside picking, I think it is sonically different
Everything that I’ve read on this site and my own experience says that neither Inside or Outside picking is “better” than the other. Indeed there are many who combine both. If you perceive that one sounds “better” or “different”, it is almost a certainty that it is your perception or just that one or a combination of both comes naturally to you. Inside picking probably comes more naturally to me and as a result it “feels” better or more natural, but I can’t say that one sounds better than another.
As for video evidence of how Eddie used Outside picking on the high E and B strings during the Clapton licks, watch the “Jump” solo at around the 2:17 mark in this 1998 Cherone era live clip…you’ll clearly see the Outside picking on the high E and B strings during the Clapton parts of the solo.
I think that’s pretty good!
Thank you man means a lot from you