Van Halen "Girl Gone Bad" Drum and Guitar Riff

Playing Technique
#91

Yeah, it’s tricky to get that delayed timing from the first note to the second on the B string and then to speed up for the last three Up-Down-Up on the high E and then get from that last Upstroke on the high E to the Downstroke on the B super quickly to begin the pattern again. And then get the whole pattern up to speed. I’m not quite there yet, but this may be a workable and repeatable compromise solution.

Not sure I follow you on the sound? On the original recording, Eddie used an Ovation classical non-cutaway model similar to mine, though I believe the one he used was just an acoustic and not acoustic-electric like mine.

On my clip I just stuck my iPhone in my mouth and whatever acoustic sound the iPhone got is what is in my clip!

#92

I wonder how it was recorded and if there’s much equalization after.
There is a lot of fret/string impact noise so probably recorded the sound hole and the neck with separate mics? And that would also give you something to mix. There’s bound to be a fair amount of production on it even tho it’s just raw guitar.

And yeah I remember at the start he says “and again” so obviously at the very least more than one take. I wonder if they ever mixed two different takes and really produced the hell out of it to make it sound as warm an yet still sparklely/snappy as it does.

I don’t believe any of the talk that Ed just picked up the guitar and went for it. Like they say about “beat it” for example. I think the story with Spanish fly is he just picked up a producers or someones guitar n just played it. (probably not getting that right at all I’ve forgotten)

#93

The story you may be thinking of is the story behind “Eruption”. That was Ed’s live solo which did not have a name. He was warming up with it and Ted Templeman heard it and wanted it on the album. It was the very last thing recorded for the first album.

Or you may be remembering the other story which was specific to “Spanish Fly”. Eddie did not own an acoustic guitar at the time. Ted Templeman had a Christmas party at his house and Eddie picked up Ted’s Ovation classical cutaway and began to play what became “Spanish Fly”. Then it was later recorded for the second album…to the best of my knowledge it was recorded with Ted’s Ovation classical.

I agree that the mumbling at the beginning is likely Eddie saying “Let me do that again” or “And again”. I believe there were probably two or three takes and they kept the best one. I don’t believe that any of it was compiled from various takes. It doesn’t make sense to have a final product with so many mistakes if it was a big production with many edits.

In any event, I am fairly certain it was all one live take. There was certainly compression on the track and a little reverb, but nothing else as far as I can tell.

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#94

How do you normally pick? Do you use middle or index?
As I said before Ed had a real Good range of force with the middle and thumb finger grip.
When I do it, it takes a lot of force to control the fast picking combined with the slow muting. I believe due to Eddie’s hand construction he was able to achieve this naturally, yet we are trying to force it.

All I can say is I think it’s a serious avenue of thought to go down.

#95

I’ve always held the pick the way Eddie held the pick…with the Thumb and Middle fingers with the Index resting on the edge of the pick.

Again, I don’t think genetics has anything to do with it. We will just agree to disagree.

#96

Do you not like the index grip?
I like both, tho I struggle with the middle finger for harder playing because my grip is at the limit of its range of mostion

Exercise to play Spanish Fly
#97

I only use the Index grip for hybrid picking. I’ve been using the Thumb and Middle grip since at least 1984 because I was copying Eddie. I’ve been doing it so long that it’s just more natural to me.

I don’t think you have any limited range of motion. I would guess that you just aren’t used to it. Again, I believe that there is probably not any genetic deficiency issue with you or anyone else that gives any sort of disadvantage compared to anyone else.

#98

Hey @garbeaj

Have you seen this vid? I only just saw it, he is doing that run really fast and direct to the cam, I don’t see any movement with his right to hop over the string, he’s just swiping over it, clean or not, It’s one of the most direct videos I’ve seen, thought I’d share it

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#99

That’s a cool video…I have not seen it before. He doesn’t do the complete run so it is hard to see what he is doing nonetheless. I think he is doing something different on the album version however. As Troy has pointed out, it’s a cavalcade of “airballs” and all we can do is try to make a compromise with a repeatable pattern.

#100

Hows that muted note gone for you? Do you think it’s whats basically happening?
I am still quite adamant that his hand construction allows angles of force that someone like me finds incredibly difficult to achieve without wearing my hand out.

#101

I think that what Troy pointed out is exactly what’s happening, but I think that my compromise solution for getting a repeatable pattern that gets some of the feel across reasonably is working. It’s just taking me a hell of a lot of practice to get it up to speed. All of this to try to mimic Eddie’s mistakes!

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#102

Hey man just checking in. I feel like the Vancouver 2012 clip (great clip!) shows EVH is using the following pattern, which once again is consistent with the “I’m the One” pattern:

Down hammer hammer
down up down up
(repeat these ideas on the next two strings)

EDIT: I think that when the fourth note is swiped through the string, it will result in the “bump” we hear in Spanish Fly ascending sixes.

#103

I think he’s doing this in Vancouver:

Down-Hammer-Down on the lower string
Up-Down-Up on the higher string.

The issue is that there is no exact repeated pattern that he executes in one way in “Girl Gone Bad” or in “Spanish Fly” or in the fast “Spanish Fly” sextuplets in the live solos.

For me, the Down-Hammer-Down/Up-Down-Up thing works perfectly, for me, to execute the guitar/drum riff from “Girl Gone Bad” with a repeatable pattern that captures the feel of what is going on, if not what is actually happening…because I can’t figure out exactly what’s happening. I feel like my compromise pattern might be what he is actually doing in that part in the Vancouver clip. This pattern also works very well for some of the sextuplet licks in “I’m The One”.

The “Spanish Fly” sextuplets are even more mistake filled and random. I can only use my own “compromise” repeatable pattern that gets the overall sound, feel and timing close…because what is going on in the recording of “Spanish Fly” is so “un-repeatable” and has no pattern in itself. Same for the live sixes during the live guitar solo segments.

The best I’ve come up with for these “Spanish Fly” sextuplets is to actually play:

Down-Hammer-Down on the lower string

Then a strong, “pushing” Downstroke to the muted higher string

And then “Up-Down-Up” to complete the licks on the higher string.

Ultimately, whatever anyone plays for these parts is bound to be a compromise, because no one can figure out how to play exactly what’s going on note-for-note. If it baffles even Troy, then I’m lost!

#104

In looking at the Vancouver again it does look like another downstroke on the upbeat (the third note of the riff) as suggested by your Down Hammer Down idea, and this is also sort of consistent with what Jude Gold said about EVH’s picking on “boogies”.

In listening back to the first ascending run in Spanish Fly (on the bass strings, not the treble sixes), I do think I hear another pick attack on the upbeat (right where it would be according to your Down Hammer Down idea). oh man. :weary:

#105

Not sure if you looked at my clips from earlier in this post, but you can see me playing these patterns above. I don’t quite have the “Spanish Fly” parts up to speed, but you can see the idea at work.

I’m friendly with Jude…do you have a link to what you mentioned him saying? I guess that’s a reference to the picking mistakes Eddie often made as Troy pointed out but still coming out sounding great?

#106

Fab bit of playing! I think this is one of the most fascinating threads on the forum. I’d have bet money that the Spanish Fly ascending run was was DHHUDU until I saw this. Of course being a DSX player, I (tried to) play it DHHDUD, but DUDUDU seems to fall under the fingers for me. At least for the right hand, my left hand ain’t worth a sh!t… :tired_face:

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#107

Which is funny, because as Troy and I agree…it is most likely that Eddie intended to D-U-D, U-D-U the sequence, but what comes out is something completely different!

If it was Al DiMeola all would have been executed fine…but it was Eddie Van Halen and all kinds of blunders happened that ultimately ended up coming out sounding COOLER than it would have if his technique was on the level of DiMeola.

And thus, I’ve tried to come up with a repeatable pattern that captures the feel and some of the sound of the chaos that happens on the record and indeed when he played those similar patterns on other recordings and live…namely the D-H-U…hard Down picking of the muted higher string followed by U-D-U to complete the sequence as I demonstrated in my clip of me playing that pattern on my Ovation classical.

#108

His hand construction plays a huge part from my perspective.
He could grip the pick middle finger style and utilize the flexion and extension of the wrist in a loose and relaxed way that most can’t.

This enables a near 90 degree angle attack on the strings with a lot of “flop” creating the random picking.

It’s also why Eddie had such powerful picking at times, and others very soft.

#109

Ok, a YouTube user commented on one of my videos and he shared some important information that I missed about the Ovation classical that Eddie used on “Spanish Fly” and “Little Guitars”…in fact, he completely schooled me!

I previously thought that all Ovation non-cutaway classical guitars joined the body at the 12th fret like most standard classical guitars do. Boy, was I wrong! The YouTube user pointed out that he owns an Ovation ‘Country Artist’ model which joins the body at the 14th fret! He also pointed out that this is the same model as the Ovation classical that Eddie is pictured with in the famous “pick-axe” photo session. I looked closely at that photo again, and indeed, that guitar neck also joins the body at the 14th fret! I’ve been absolutely killing myself trying to play “Spanish Fly” and the “Little Guitars” intro on my late 70s Ovation Celebrity classical which joins the body at the 12th fret.

Well, now I have to sell my Celebrity and get a ‘Country Artist’ model…that 14th fret neck join is a key thing to being able to execute these pieces correctly! Color me amazed!

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#110

Well I just pulled the trigger on an Ovation Country Artist model…it should be in my hands within the next week.

So just to re-cap on these “Spanish Fly” sextuplets, I’m still experimenting with the Down-Hammer-Down/Down swipe to the muted high E, then Up-Down-Up on the three ending notes on the high E as I demonstrated in my little clip.

The “Girl Gone Bad” sextuplet synch riff seems to me to almost certainly be Down-Hammer-Down on the low string and Up-Down-Up on the next higher string. That I’m way more certain of that than the “Spanish Fly” sextuplets, but I do feel like the work around I have for those works to get across the overall flavor of what’s going on in the recording even if it isn’t exactly what’s happening with all the “airballs” and randomness that is really in the recording.

I’ll work on the “Spanish Fly” sextuplets with my Ovation Country Artist and post a clip to see if I’m getting any better results!

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