What am I missing? - Very Little Progress

For the economy picking lick: I meant whenever you play a downstroke, you can let the adjacent string stop your pick, i.e. you “rest” your pick on that string momentarily - that could apply to all downstrokes, including the sweep, i.e. not thinking of the sweep as one stroke but two could help with getting the timing more even. Just one thing to try, it works for some, it doesn’t for others. Also try accenting the upstrokes sometimes to break out of that TAtataTAtataTAtata feel and practice other mechanically similar lines like Eric Johnson’s descending pentatonic fives.

For the alt picking ascending: I would memorize how your working movement feels during the successful descending line and try the same motion at the same fast tempo in ascending or other licks. I don’t think finding what’s wrong with your slow motion and trying to fix that is the way. In the video when you started playing the descending line at a slow tempo at 0.29 you did something that looked similar to your “problematic” ascending one earlier, but when you did it fast you found the right motion again. So I’d do that in other licks, floor it. I agree with @Thegent that you’re very close, it might be a matter of overcoming the mental block of not wanting to play wrong notes.

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Thanks for all the replies and insight. @spirogyro I see what you’re talking about at 0.29. It almost looks like the exaggerated movements that Micahel Angel does when Troy is talking about his hand movements in Speed Kills when he’s playing it slowly. That movement goes away when he goes into hyper-speed.

I spent some good time watching CTC videos and practicing different licks yesterday and I feel confident that I can use 2 way pick slanting because I do it just fine on certain licks. I just haven’t conquered the 3 notes per string ascending scale yet.

I will post here if I have a break through.

Hey @Cooliozar sorry for the late reply, but I’m happy to see you got many nice suggestions already :slight_smile: (Incidentally, I also find ascending a bit harder than descending, so I feel your pain!).

Apologies for stating/repeating the obvious but it looks like your alternate picking is better developed than your ascending economy at this stage. So as others have suggested I’d try to nail that first. Your collection of videos demonstrate that you can do both the upstroke and downstroke string change, and your descending scale shows that you can mix them up as well! You are close!

It may help to try different accents as well as you practice (16th notes, 6 notes per beat, 5 notes per beat, etc.).

Have you posted an ascending scale with alternate picking yet? Would be nice to have a look at that - don’t worry about accuracy, try to wing it at a decent tempo (say the same speed as your descending scale).

Since you mentioned an interest in economy picking as well, I highly recommend Troy’s latest analysis of Frank Gambale, freely available on YT (here’s the intro videos - there’s 5 more). The concepts in there can be useful for alternate picking as well:

In any case you sound great already - so please don’t spend all your time practicing the ascending scale :wink:

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Thanks @tommo! After playing through a lot of the examples in the antigravity seminar yesterday, I feel like I can do most everything. I just can’t take a simple 3 note per string scale, starting on a low note, and play fast and accurate as I ascend the scale. I’ve always done ˅ ^ hammer. I don’t want to discount the usability of this but I also want to recognize the reason I do it is because of the limitation in my picking technique.

I will post a video of me attempting true alternate picking on the 3nps ascending scale in a little bit.

Also, one thing that really makes all this so maddening is that I can play phrases that require two way pick slanting. But they are usually phrases consisting of just 2 strings. I just can’t do ascending 3nps! haha.

I can post a video of some of those phrases along with my attempted 3nps alt picking video if you think it might reveal something other than me needing to continue to practice it until it becomes 2nd nature. I don’t want to end up reinforcing bad habits.

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One more thing I forgot to mention! You can also try to warmup with a pattern that ascends with 9 notes per string, then one with 7 , then 5 and finally 3. These will all require mixed escapes (with alternate picking), but of course both the coordination & string tracking challenges are increased gradually from one pattern to the next. Wrote this in a hurry so let me know if it makes sense :slight_smile:

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Ok, I just did a quick video where I attempt true alternate picking on the ascending 3 note per string scale a couple times. When it gets quicker, that’s me doing what I normally do as my “cheating” where I play the first two notes and hammer on the 3rd so I’m oriented for a downstroke on the next string.

The last thing I play looks to start with possibly two way pick slanting but I can’t see it. The pattern is

g----------2------------------------------2----
d -------------5----3----2----3----5---------

But I go on to play between 3 strings and switch to the sweep on the down stroke for the string switch during the ascending part, while still using alternate picking when descending.

So, I can do this on 3 or 4 strings but I can’t do it at all if I start on the lowest string and attempt to go to the highest. Is this just years of playing something a certain way to the point that it’s ingrained in my muscle memory?

Thanks, as always.

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Hey Cooliozar, thanks for filming this! Let’s look first at the fully picked ascending scale.

What I noticed straight away is that here you are using a completely different motion compared to your descending video a couple of posts up. Watch the two back to back, and see if you have the same impression.

I see more of a “bouncy” motion in this clip, and I am not even sure all the repetitions are alternate picked. I maybe saw a repeated downstroke but not sure. So I think here it’s not about “practicing” this motion more and more, but it’s about replacing it with a different more efficient motion.

The good news is… you already have the more efficient motion! You have demonstrated it in the first two videos and in the descending scale. Ah, and also at the end of the latest video!

So maybe a next attempt could be: play your fast descending scale, and then immediately the ascending one, trying to keep the same motion going. It may be sloppy at first, but the first objective is to convince your hands/arm that it can be done! I could attempt an analogy with riding a bike: the first few times you may be wobbly and only get a couple of meters in before you fall, but that’s the only way to get a feel for it.

If this doesn’t work, maybe you could try those ascending figures with more notes per string, for example 5 or 7. They still have the challenge of mixing up upstrokes and downstrokes when you move to a new string, but at a slightly slower pace.

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Thanks for reviewing the videos and providing insight! Very helpful. Everyone who has posted on this has been very helpful and it’s appreciated very much!!

I’ll keep at it and will post again if I feel I have something useful to share!

-Chris

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