What am I missing? - Very Little Progress

Technique Critique
#1

I’ve been a member since 12/18 and I’ve gone through all of the Pick Slanting Primer and several other videos and forum topics and I still seem to be stuck.

I’ve been playing guitar for 25 years and I can’t seem to break out of my playing style despite all of the practice time I’ve put in, working to try new things.

I’m a DWPS who always starts with a DS and uses alternate picking for most everything fast. My problem was identified during the PSP videos. I can play accurately and very fast if I’m doing specific chunks which always maintain alternate picking and I’m escaping on the upstroke. An example is ascending at 6 notes per string allows me to maintain speed and accuracy but if I try 3 notes per string, I lose everything.

The only thing I’ve done to eliminate this problem is only pick the first two notes on a 3 note per string ascending pattern, and hard hammer the 3rd note. This simulates the sound but is nowhere close to the actual sound of picking every note.

I realize that two-way pick slanting is the answer but I’ve practiced it and can’t make any progress!!
Maybe I need to start everything over and go from the beginning? I’m out of ideas. HELP!

Here’s a video link to show a few of the examples I mentioned.

DWPS - Alternate picking in chunks

DWPS - Ascending 6 notes per string

Any help is appreciated.

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#2

So… do you mean you have problems with sweeping or double escape motion? Whsat is your current aproach to play 3nps patterns?

#3

I will only play 3nps by picking the first two and doing a hard hammer-on for the 3rd. I can’t get two-way pick slanting to work for me at all.

#4

May be you would try standard DWPS approach? Sweeping in ascending motion, pull-ofs in descending? In that case you would start with an upstroke on any new string

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#5

I have tried using a sweep on the first note of the next string but this has produced minimal results. I’ve practiced over and over and just can’t make any progress. Also, I’m quite a bit better when descending although not as good as the 2, 4 or 6 note chunks. I think I may actually be doing a slight version of two-way pick slanting when descending which occurred naturally. I just can’t do anything for ascending unless it’s in those measured chunks that we know already work.

#7

Hey @Cooliozar, this is some awesome playing! Sorry for the delay in responding.

The main thing is… here you are showing us things that are working great :slight_smile:

Would you be able to post a video of the ascending and descending scales that are giving you trouble?

Without watching those I can already say that your setup looks very good, my guess is that you will eventually figure out a way to achieve also the downstroke escape from that position, using appropriate wrist motion.

In fact, how does it go when you play licks that only change strings after a downstroke?

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#8

Thanks Tommo. Sorry for the delayed response. I just now got to sit down and do a quick video with the troublesome 3 notes per string. It’s odd that, while not perfect, my descending picking is much faster and more accurate AND I’m doing actual alternate picking. I’m wondering if I’m possibly using a little 2 way pick slant. I can’t really tell. My ascending 3 notes per string is really slow and sloppy and was the main reason for this post. Apologies for the first videos. You’re absolutely right, they don’t show what my problem patterns are. Hopefully, this video will be much more insightful:

I’ve been practicing this for quite some time and just don’t see any progress.

#9

What happens when you want to play say a 20 second solo over a couple of chords or a riff or whatever?

It sounds to me like you’ve got technique enough to do a fair bit with it.

#10

I don’t really have any issues with improv. To me, this thread is more specific to being able to pick every single note regardless of what I’m trying to play. Right now, I feel like I’m stuck at something simple like 3 notes per string ascending. When I improvise, I rarely pick every single note so this is really just something I see as an opportunity for improvement in accuracy which should expand my ability to play different things when I am improvising.

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#11

Thanks for sharing @Cooliozar. Imho, the thing that will have the greatest positive impact on your playing ability by far (especially when you feel stuck/on a plateau/making little progress) is taking lessons with a guitar teacher whose playing you admire.

These days we are spoilt for choice and there are many outstanding guitar teachers available, from pros to people next door.

There is simply no substitute for a guitar teacher.

Like I always say: you cannot improve on something if you don’t even know that you’re doing it wrong in the first place. A good guitar teacher will point out the weak spots in your technique you didn’t even realize you had.

I wish you the best in your guitar journey :+1:t3:

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#12

Thanks for the feedback nitro. I’ve taken guitar lessons over the years from various different teachers and they were all beneficial. I’ve also given guitar lessons and have found that to be very insightful as well. In this case, Troy has drilled down so far into the exact picking mechanics of so many great players that he’s garnered a following of people who rely on the CCTC series as well as all the insightful forum and members feedback.

I know there are 2 likely solutions to my problem but I just can’t seem to get either one to click on the ascending 3 notes per string patterns. Maybe repetition is the answer but I can’t determine which one might be the answer.

  1. Short sweep on the 4th note, which is the string switch.
  2. Two way pick slanting. (Use full alternate picking and slant so I escape properly as needed for the next strike.

I have considered taking lessons again for perspective, but in this case, I really think I might just need to continue woodshedding and one of the 2 above will eventually work out for me.

Still, any technique feedback is welcome!!

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#13

For the economy pattern I think it’s a matter of synchronization and timing - you should be able to improve over time if you introduce some variation in practice. Try emphasizing different notes of the sequence, e.g only the upstrokes. Sometimes digging in on the downstroke (focusing on making it a restroke) helps too.

The descending alt picking sounds great. There might be some swiping there but if you keep tweaking it slightly I think you’ll be able to minimize it, without needing to worry about 2-way and the exact mechanics - just by focusing on how clean it sounds.

I would try the same approach with the ascending sequence too, just going for it. When you tried it in the video at slower tempo it looked like another motion. What if you do the descending run and then keep your picking hand going while switching to ascending? There might be a lot of missed notes but I think it will be a better start.

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#14

You’ve got a great sound on the descending run. Try the paul gilbert lick on the low strings…if that works, you’ve got the ability to make the first string change ascending. Keep it going…like a ‘forward chaining’ approach. Get to the next string…then go a string further. You may need to get comfortable starting both an up and down.

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#15

Thanks sprio. When you say “focus on making it a restroke” are you referring to the down, down portion when I play the 3rd note and then the 4th note on the next string as the same stroke? Just making sure I’m understanding what you’re referring to.

Also, you mentioned that it looked like another motion when I slowed it down. I think there could be a clue in there for my entire problem with this ascending 3 notes per string issue. That’s where I’m seeking help. I’ve watched my hand on the descending and then on the attempted ascending and I’m not sure what’s different but it doesn’t work well on the ascending at all.

Let me know if you see something specific in my right hand technique that could be problematic.

#16

Thanks Thegent. Can you point me to the Paul Gilbert lick? I know I’ve come across it in the CTC series but I have no idea where it to find it unless I start with episode 1 and watch through all of them.

I like the idea of what you’re saying but just need to cop the lick and see if I can learn the movements in blocks and then chain them together.

Very helpful tips!

#17

I don’t think the ‘Paul Gilbert lick’ is actually in the CtC series…at least I don’t specifically remember it. It’s just well known as that.

Start with (start with a down, then start with up)
a-------------------------------5-------
e -------------5----7----8-------------

Once you feel it’s usable, go with (again start with down, then up)

a--------------------------5----7----8–
e------------5—7---8-------------------

then,
d-------------------------------------------5----
a--------------------------5----7----8--------
e---------5----7----8-------------------------

etc, etc.

I guess it’s not totally the ‘PG lick’…just the first string change of it. You may want to back off the speed to 16th’s at 140-150bpm before going full bore. I hope some or all of this helps you break the wall.

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#18

I have such a difficult time starting any phrase with an upstroke. I think that’s a completely separate issue that I need to work on. I start EVERYTHING with a down stroke.

That being said, I found something interesting with the first pattern of

a-------------------------------5-------
e -------------5----7----8-------------

If I start at 5 on the A string and use a down stroke then I can play as fast as I want and very accurately. Being a downstroke on the a/5, I’ve noticed that I’m slightly rolling my wrist to create the escape on the downstroke. That means I’m using upward pick slanting. So I know I can do both.

I still stumble badly if I start on the e/5 with a downstroke and attempt to use ˅ ^ ˅ ˅.

Maybe this all comes down to repetition but I feel like I’ve been trying to do this for a long time. Meanwhile, I can play those other chunks super fast and accurate. It’s just very frustrating.

#19

Are you wanting to alternate pick an ascending scale…or are your wanting to economy pick ascending?

#20

In the end, I want the flexibility to be able to do both. Right now, I just want to be able to one and play it fast and accurately.

I’m rewatching all the CTC videos again and the only thing I can determine is that I still haven’t practiced it enough. :frowning:

#21

Haha. I know the feeling. I think since you’ve nailed the decending alternate picking - your ascending alternate picking is just around the corner…my money would be focusing on that to check one thing off your list.

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