What do we know about the astonishing chops of Stephen Taranto?

Playing Technique
#66

It’s funny to me how in this controversy people are targeting the big, fat sacrificial lambs like Lucas Mann while conveniently ignoring the far more disturbing gray area point I brought up a few dozen posts back:

Posting clips of yourself nailing impossible licks when it took you about 50 or possibly dozens more takes is still disingenuous as shit. This isn’t a commentary on Stephen, as he seems to be honest about how he fucks up the notes in his description. Which is great. I applaud him for that. You can even hear him fuck up in some clips. It’s similar to how people on Instagram or dating apps or whatever will take 100 photos in which look they one way, but then the 101st makes them look completely different. And then you meet them in real life and they look anything but.

Relative to our world I’ve had this experience taking lessosn from a certain musician from a major metal band about a decade ago. He was nowhere near the monster on the live lessons that I thought he would be based off his YouTube clips. He was actually very sloppy on Rock Discipline chromatic passages he showed me and his down-picking on a Metallica tune sounded amateur. This was when I was an intermediate player and could not play at the speeds I play now and even then it sounded off.

Healthy expectations are necessary. A lot of these guys are not at all the gods you might think they are, and I think our standards are fucked up based off cherry-picking videos and recordings. It’s something I’ve struggled with - holding myself to a level of perfection that isn’t really possibly to achieve.

Worth your time to watch this segment:

3 Likes
#68

But, did he specifically weigh in on this particular video, or just his playing in general?

Again, I have no doubt Stephen is a monster. A lot of the videos in this thread sound pretty natural to me (ignoring of course the stupifying chops) and one in particular was someone else’s video of him improvising on a guitar at NAMM, which would take some pretty wildly conspiracy theories for that to be faked, as well. I’m as sure he’s legit as I can be of anyone I haven’t met, seen play in person, and shot the shit with over a beer, and if he’s ever in the area and looking to kill some time I’d happily offer. :rofl:

But, at the same time, if you go back to this video that Troy posted in this post:

…something sounds odd. There could be any number of explanations for it, and plenty of them are innocent, but at a MINIMUM I think if you listen to that it’s undeniable that the guitar sounds different than it does in his other clip. The tone, the attack… Something’s different in that clip than in his others shown here. Again, there are a number of possible explanations, but the audio itself does sound rather like a sped-up guitar, and my totally-subjective impression is that his playing is cleaner in this clip than in his others, and sounds less like a guy really stretching to nail a tough lick.

It also happens that I think the clips that sound less weird to me sound better, from a pure “awesome shred solo” standpoint, precisely because they do sound like a guy really going for it. Take that for whatever it’s worth.

But, end of the day… his guitar sounds different in this clip. And I suspect if you closed your eyes and listened blind, you’d have no trouble picking out the clip that’s throwing up a few red flags here, from the others that aren’t. Something just sounds weird.

1 Like
#70

Just. going through this conversation, keep this in mind while reading replies.

This particular clip sounds weird. It also sounds weirdly different than his other clips, and there’s a couple other things that are odd about it. It’s suspicious, it may be fine, but it also may be sped up audio, and there ARE plenty of reasons he may have had to do so - one of the things being discussed in that 20+ page thread mentioned earlier is that instagram guitarists are under tremendous pressure to consistently share videos at an extremely high level because digital editing has raised the threshold to the deggree that that’s what is expected, and because IG and Facebook and Youtood algorithms reward frequency and engagement more than they do content itself. He may have just been having a bad day, who knows.

But, regardless of whether it’s because it’s been sped up, or if he was just using a really fake-sounding amp sound that day or if something really weird was up with the encoding on that video but none other… I think it’s important to stop and concede that what’s being discussed here isn’t the guy’s natural abilities, live performances, or total cannon, and regardless of what Levi Clay or Steve Vai have said about him in the past, they weren’t talking about the same particular video we are and there ARE some very weird things going on in that video.

You’ve been focused on arguing a very different defense - this dude can play really well, because all these guys say he’s able to play really well and people have seen him pull this stuff off live. And that’s a very different defense than what’s been discussed here, which, to paraphrase, has been “this dude’s clearly a monster, but there’s something very weird going on in this one specific video, that sounds really like sped up audio because the transients are all wrong.” And the fact that he IS a good guitarist and no one here is seriously questioning that doesn’t disprove that he’s never sped up audio on a track.

Frankly, I’m not even saying I can say for sure here. All I’m willing to commit to is that 1) this video sounds audibly different than his others, from the standpoint of tone and timbre, 2) it sounds like there are less timing inconsistencies and little artifacts from trying to nail a really hard run than normal, and 3) the audio does sound, for whatever reason, a bit like it’s been sped up. If you’re going to argue Occam’s Razor, then I’d say the simplest explanation is the audio WAS modified here, but the simplest aurgument isn’t always the right one, and it’s entirely possible that the compression algorithm on IG just really banged up this one particular video for unclear reasons in way worse ways than all the other similar ones.

#72

Again, though, none of this changes the fact that this video both sounds 1) very different from his others, and 2) has some odd qualities.

Honestly, I don’t see what the big deal is - no one is seriously questioning his ability to play, or if they are I’m not seeing it. We’re specifically discussing one particular video, and I’ve admitted multiple times that I think the rest of his videos here pass a sniff test.

But, the simple reality is, you’re saying this single video is unedited with an awfully high degree of confidence. I don’t think that’s warranted, nor do I really see why it matters. The guy can play. This video still seems a little suspect. Not a big deal either way, he’s a legit talent even if there’s a nonzero probability that some editing was done here.

Also, you’re aware I post over at the site with the “20+ page thread” in question, right? Suggesting members there come over here to tell Troy he’s wrong and just needs to “get out more” isn’t really helping make this a better conversation, IMO.

1 Like
#73

I’m not a big fan of lending me intentions I did not have.

What was meant as an inclusive message to partake in a discussion was interpreted as negative.

Apologies for that and apologies to Troy for the tongue in cheek comment - referencing the self-admitted fact that Troy did not know Taranto or Richardson.

Next time ask me instead of lending me intentions I did not have. I would have gladly explained. I guess that’s a limitation of forum discussions vs talking IRL.

I actually enjoy the discussion, which is why I spent time replying here and on the other thread.

Where did I state that people should come back me up?

Why do you think I said “FYI, if you guys want to partake in an interesting/depressing discussion, Troy Grady (Cracking the Code) and some of his followers are arguing that some of Stephen Taranto’s IG videos are fake (on the cracking the code forums).”

“Interesting” to some, “depressing” to others, since the opinions on this thread and like in every other forum, are varied.

If I wanted an echo chamber, I’d have decided to discuss in an environment where I cherry picked people for their opinions.

I even stated this in the thread you reference, even in reply to you.

Why do you think I said “I enjoy a totally civil discussion and enjoy the fact that you’re taking the time to explain your views.”?

Why control a discussion and not let everyone discuss a topic?

Here’s the full thing I posted on this “other forum”.

FYI, if you guys want to partake in an interesting/depressing discussion, Troy Grady (Cracking the Code) and some of his followers are arguing that some of Stephen Taranto’s IG videos are fake (on the cracking the code forums).

Until now, IMHO their line of argumentation is pretty weak.

Levi Clay just adressed Taranto in his live AMA about Lucas Mann. He doesn’t see anything wrong about his videos and thinks he’s legit. I guess Troy is being honest but needs to get out more.

Props to Lucas Mann for trying to address this. As for his line of argumentation, I’ll need to watch the whole video."

If that offends Troy or anyone else, my apologies. I have the utmost respect for Troy’s work (bougth the CTC access 2 years ago and practice exercises every week).

#74

Ah, gotcha, plausible deniability. Definitely my fault, you weren’t looking to stir the pot at all.

Anyway, end of the day - Stephen Taranto is undoubtedly a great player, no one is questioning the fact that he can play his ass off, and most of his videos I’ve seen look pretty legit. This one has some red flags. You don’t seem to be willing to consider alternate explanations, and we’re clearly not going to solve this by going back and forth any further on this.

Again, dude is a monster of a player. This ONE video sounds unnatural and potentially manipulated in ways that I don’t think encoding explains, but the rest of his videos here look pretty good to me.

#76

Extremely, but it doesn’t matter. We don’t agree, and that’s fine. We’re not going to get anywhere by continuing this discussion, so let’s agree to disagree and drop it. :+1:

1 Like
#77

Ok guys we’ve reached the legal limit of two people responding consecutively to each other in a forum thread! I think we should call this particular topic done, mostly because I think just about every viewpoint and response has expressed, rather civilly and constructively I would add. Now we’re just entering the circular phase where the likelihood of going off the rails rises exponentially.

I do think this is an important topic given the times we live in, and I’m glad we can talk about these things without the kind of drama the internet is known for. Let’s chalk this up as a win for everyone.

In summary, I’ll link back to @nitro1976’s excellent post which I think very nicely encapsulates the takeways that most of us seem to agree on:

6 Likes
#78

My original question was about picking :joy:

How would you pick such a string skipping lick?

The most natural thing for me is to alternate pick everything, start with an upstroke, do DWPS on the low string and hit the single note on the high string with a downstroke (making sure I slant to escape with that downstroke).

Do you guys have other ways to do this ?

#79

I had to scan back a ways to see what you’re asking about — and that was only a day ago, apparently!

While I understand technically there is a moment of moving past an unplayed string in that line, I wouldn’t even really think of that as a “string skipping” lick. That’s just the Paul Gilbert lick played on different pairs of strings. And more generally, it’s “just” a three note per string scale phrase. That’s definitely an alternate picking-style line and if you want to do that the way Stephen appears to, you’re going to use a wrist motion like the kind we’ve been discussing in our most recent round of wrist motion tutorials.

Specifically, players that are good at this, like Stephen and Andy Wood, appear to use the lightly supinated form with a downstroke escape wrist motion as the default. When done with that form, no or very little change in the arm position or “pickslant” is really necessary. You’re just moving the wrist in very slightly different directions for the two escapes. When in doubt, allow swiping to happen on the upstroke string changes. The smoothness of motion is really where there work is done. Anything else can be cleaned up in the long tail.

2 Likes
#80

Thanks a lot for the quick and comprehensive answer. I agree, it really is more of a Gilbert lick than actual string skipping. It looks like I have some catching up to do on your videos. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

#81

Looks like Taranto heard about this thread and posted on IG:

Notice that he LITERALLY SAID that he’ll “SPEED IT UP”
OMG

IDK what to think

*edit, since it’s the internet I’m going to qualify that the above is sarcasm,

At this point, it’s worth nothing that the commonly leveraged argument above that

“just because he can play it doesn’t mean the video clip we found isn’t sped up”

is still technically a valid argument, despite the fact that it’s not at all a parsimonious position to hold, especially given this undeniably exculpatory evidence that he can play it perfectly at the exact same speed,

So with that in mind, let’s shift the burden of proof onto those making the assertion that the clip is doctored, and let’s also practise the crap out of this cool outside picking lick

1 Like
#82

Gonna assume that was sarcastic :slight_smile:

I tried to learn the lick and found it surprisingly straightforward mechanically.
I will practice it - no chance I’ll able to get close to his speed, but it feels like it will be easier to speed up than say some EJ licks.

3 Likes
#83

Dude I leapt out of bed and I’m practising the shit out of it. I’m getting the speed surprisingly high, but I’m not able to merge the chunks together yet.

#84

Yes the chunks are very easy to speed up but joining them up smoothly with the sweeps is the tricky bit

#85

You might not be doing it correctly if you’re sweeping, it’s all alternate picking from looking at the instagram tab, starting with a downstroke, then a hammer (omitting an upstroke), and then a downstroke on the G string and all alternate picking from there until the next accented note which starts the loop

#86

Hmm it starts with an E right ? Looks like he’s turned down half a step hence starting on the 6th fret.
I actually only “sweep” when connecting the two shapes and switching from the B to E strings, and start the lick on an upstroke, the rest is all alternate picking apart from the hammer on. Feels very natural for me this way

#87

Actually my first two picked notes are upstrokes

#88

I know what you mean, I was playing it that way at first and it feels a bit more natural for me, but I think it will be harder to repeat the chunks that way. He doesn’t hit the G string with an upstroke after the hammer, if that makes sense.

#89

Oh, I should clarify that everywhere that I said “D” in my comment before I was meaning “Downstroke” (sorry! haha), yes it does start on an E note

*edit, thought I’d upload a raw little clip practicing the lick, I feel like I could get it working with a few solid hours of practice.

3 Likes