What is Jazz to you? Or is there an absolute definition?

Harmony & Theory
#35

I typically think most music if not all can be related to our voice and language.
Call n response for example, or a scale having a set alphabet to talk with.

A lot of language gets modified over time, lets take Ya’ll for example, I don’t think it’s classic English, but it’s an interpretation that works, could that be classed as Jazz? Yo mann, hey bro, sup ma G LOL Some people HATE that type of non classical talk, but it becomes it’s own thing. To the point of not acually understanding what someone’s saying. Isn’t that the base concept of Jazz? A freedom in communication. And it will sound like nonsense to some people.

1 Like
#36

Wouldn’t that mean you can’t play Jazz unless you know exactly what you’re going to say?
I always felt it was like kind of shredding away with what you do know, to get out something you’ve never truly expressed before, tho of course whole reason I posted this is cus idk what it truly is. I for whether reason don’t think Jazz is a set thing tho, it’s not 1 + 1 = 2, and you can learn that, it’s 1 + 1 = 3, and lets hear your interpretation of that concept. So it’s like trying to catch a fly with chopsticks, the second you clamp down the fly has, flied.

Our dog’s name is Jasper, or, Jazz, he’ll bark at the most random times, and I know he’s doing it for a reason, but I’m often thinking wtf are you barking at. He drives me insane, just like some Jazz music.

1 Like
#37

You’re missing one of the fundamental aspects of jazz. Which is that it swings.

No swing, no jazz.

1 Like
#38

From Britannica:

jazz, musical form, often improvisational, developed by African Americans and influenced by both European harmonic structure and African rhythms. It was developed partially from ragtime and blues and is often characterized by syncopated rhythms, polyphonic ensemble playing, varying degrees of improvisation, often deliberate deviations of pitch, and the use of original timbres.

Any attempt to arrive at a precise, all-encompassing definition of jazz is probably futile.

The last sentence says it all.

With Jazz considered the one, true American musical art form - the fact that it can be pretty much anything it wants seems rather appropriate.

1 Like
#40

Do you know of any good videos on swing I can watch?

#41

Lets say Vinnie added some swing to his playing, would he be Jazz?

The most hardcore Jazz player of all time with no swing.

I really love his playing. He’s going for it, speed or not, just going for it. Got that energy. And ofcourse knew how to compose. If he posted on here like that I’m sure there would be a lot of love, serious ability.

I’ve not heard a song by him without guitar. But this is something

Coming up with this stuff isn’t easy. I think there is genuine stuff in there that is musical. The whole thing is musical. Just not highlighted in the right way. You can turn that into a proper solo if you vibe with it. I love it. It’s overtaking the background. It’s so aggressive relative to the background chords.

#42

Nope, he would not.

This is an introductory video on the topic but… you can’t just pick it up from a video. You need to play with other jazz players and listen to them to actually pick it up.

1 Like
#44

What do you mean nope he would not?

#45

I think I know it’s jazz when I hear it, that recognition comes from a wide range of elements and one’s personal experience. Music is a transient entity that triggers emotions which are very subjective, I would be sceptical of any definition other then treat it as a personal opinion of the person expressing themselves. Having said that I’d pay close attention to people that know more than me, if I’m lucky to recognize it.

#46

Jazz has a specific vocabulary that’s developed over a century of being played.

You can’t just take another style of music, add some swing, and plug it into a jazz group. It doesn’t work.

1 Like
#47

This may be why I am drawn to synths and sequences as well as ambient style stuff. It is just unpredictable when you can randomize notes and drum machine rhythms via randomized sequencing of the elements programmed in. I like to listen to stuff that just sounds really nice, analog bass synths sounds epic, but at the same time that randominess adds to the freshness. However to much of this I feel can drain my serotonin, and the next few days I feel super depressed. So if I go into my EDM phase I have to keep the listening to short bursts, or it will drop me like a bad habit. And no I don’t do the drugs that encompass these genres.

1 Like
#48

Re: repetition and predictability.

The songwriting has everything to do with it. A brilliant example is Baba O’Riley. One of the first songs where the synth/sequencer is the primary instrument.

That’s repetitive beyond belief……but remains captivating 50+ years later.

1 Like
#49

I don’t see jazz as a genre per se rather than a way of playing.

Groove + tension + improvisation. That’s frequently enough for me to consider something “jazzy”.

#50
#51

It’s jazz.

Go back, pay your dues, listen to the music from Charlie Parker onwards. That’s jazz. There’s not more concise way to define it than that.

#52

I will listen to more, if you can post any good examples I’ll listen :slightly_smiling_face:
Much easier to listen to others examples than find my own. And exposes me to stuff I’d probably never find myself. If you could point out what to listen out for too?

It’s titled be bop, sounds very Jazzy to me, fast lines in a rythem, and I notice a lot of lines don’t go to a crescendo, they kind of fizzle out? Almost like that line wasn’t planned and landed on a note that is wanting more, or on the edge of resolution. And even if you say I’m an idiot and get pissed acually helps, I remember stuff by exposing my ignorance and told off in a way much better than just looking at random videos. Really does help me learn n remember

To me it really sounds like shredding lines that aren’t quite complete, and lead you waiting for more. Almost like the whole tone scale, it’s there, has a feel, but it’s not quite finished yet. Even if it lands on the key note, it’s done in a way thats like passing the spotlight to someone else you know? Like leaning on the edge of a cliff, you don’t know when or if you’ll fall.
Perhaps is shredding edging? lol

#53

My current understanding is, Jazz is …

And those dots say it all.

Jazz, is, …
perhaps whatever you make of it? Your own expression in that space? Jazz is an open space? But I think waiting for a reaction.
Or like some have said, is it a set vocabulary? A language? I really do feel that it being a set of licks and scales or even rhythms, isn’t what Jazz is, thats why I say Jazz is …

But like many said, you know it when you hear it. What are you hearing?

To me I think Jazz is shredding trying to express your inner voice in that moment.
A burst of energy that is free from scales or chords yet ofcourse influenced by the culture n music you grew up with. It’s like a child having a tantrum. Just slightly more organized. Kids will have a tantrum and then wait for a reaction, that sounds like jazz to me…

I think it’s two people, even yourself alone chucking stuff out there and waiting for a reply, with the main concept being trying to connect and communicate. It’s that effort in trying to connect. Thats what Jazz is to me atm. Listened to a bunch of the songs posted n my own efforts looking into it. To me it’s that. If I’m way off course tell me. Perhaps it’s that enjoyment of not acually quite getting there. An enjoyment of the initial effort itself?

#54

“To me I think Jazz is shredding trying to express your inner voice in that moment.
A burst of energy that is free from scales or chords yet ofcourse influenced by the culture n music you grew up with. It’s like a child having a tantrum. Just slightly more organized. Kids will have a tantrum and then wait for a reaction, that sounds like jazz to me…”

That is what people who have no actual understanding of jazz think jazz is. Jazz is in fact incredibly structured with a well established harmonic and melodic vocabulary. It’s its own genre, with its own conventions and its own rules.

Start with Louis Armstrong and Charlie Christian. Move onto to Charlie Parker and Dizzie Gillespie and Wes Montgomery. And then broaden from there.

You won’t be able to pinpoint what jazz is into a simple sentence. No-one’s been able to do it in the hundred plus years that it’s been a genre. But if you get deep into the culture of it you will learn what it is.

Incidentally, that Scatman song isn’t jazz. It’s jazz inspired pop.

1 Like
#55

Can you give an example and tell me what to listen for?
Scatman is mostly some fun.

#56

Charlie Christian was one of the first people to actually make the ‘guitar solo’ a thing, and one of the people who really started bebop as a genre.

It’s worth noting that the playing in jazz is usually based on known standards - everyone learns the same tunes and they use those as the basis to improvise from. The same melodies and chord progressions. That’s the structure that jazz players work in. If you’re not playing standards a lot of the time (and with other players) you’re not really playing jazz, you’re using jazz as an inspiration in another genre.

A big thing in jazz at the moment is that there are very very few new standards - pretty much all the standards jazz players play are from the 60s or earlier. But there is a movement to make Video Game Music jazz, using songs from 1990s and 2000s videogames as standards to improvise on. Adam Neely did an excellent video about it.

Jazz improvisation takes place within a codified repetoire of songs that are established and known. That’s part of what makes it jazz, as compared to something like a jam band.

1 Like