What is my wrist motion?

Hey, my name is Jermaine. I’m very new to cracking the code and to this forum. I’m playing guitar for 6 years now. I want to work on my picking technique to get more control, endurance and speed. I’d like to ask you for help, to find out, which wrist motion I am actually using. I would say… forearm(?) I really don’t know. So I made 3 short videos…

I am very thankful for any help I get. Maybe some tips in general? :slight_smile:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AwAsIPg7c-k

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5hBr3p8wqJ8

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/F7AlVoPN-ys

Sounds awesome, looks very non-tense to me too. Can you tell it it’s escaping the strings on upstrokes vs down strokes? That’s the next step when you’ve got speed and a nice sounding attack like that. Figure out if you’re USX or DSX and find some phrases that match it.

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Could it be DBX too?

Yep, it could be. That’s really tough to “feel” and also tough to see. I’ll never forget one of the early RDT videos where Troy demoed what he thought was a DSX tremolo but upon review in super slow mo you could see it was DBX. Troy has really high quality filming though.

Another possibility is that it’s trapped. That would be easier to tell especially if the pick strokes are not kept intentionally small. If we play on one of the inner strings, a USX or DSX tremolo will hit just one of the adjacent strings. Then we’ll know! If it his the “thicker” of the adjacent string (on upstrokes), it’s DSX. If the “thinner” adjacent string (on downstrokes), it’s USX. If it hits both adjacent strings constantly, we’re trapped. In a wrist motion like this, all we’d need is either a little bit of pronation to give us DSX. Or, possibly, a little supination to give us USX (though that often messes things up, changes the motion, and folks still don’t have a USX motion).

If I were a betting man, just after seeing hundreds of these things, I’d say this OP motion is probably a highly capable DSX motion, with potential to pivot to USX or even DBX or mixed escape. It’s a really great looking wrist motion.

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The third video has the best angle - looks like USX, or potentially trapped, to me. I’d just try playing some single escape ideas using it and see how it goes! The motion does look nice and relaxed.

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I’d definitely say, it’s USX. My tremolo picking feels very well, smooth and relaxed but the complete opposite are riffs, licks and scale runs. All the time I wondered, why I can’t not play faster, even if I really hard try.

Yesterday, I found out, there is a name for it. Called stringhopping. But what I don’t understand is, why my trem pick is so different to my “inefficent picking motion”

I tried to get a better angle to record a short scale run.

Yeah that is definitely stringhopping, sounds like you are just subconsciously switching between two different motions. What happens if you consciously try and apply your tremolo motion to your licks?

For example, what happens if you play a 3 note-per string ascending scale run with economy picking? Or when you take something like Yngwie sixes and move it across all the strings?

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It feels better but not the same as my tremolo picking. I’m not familiar with economy picking as well. It looks like this :see_no_evil: :

https://youtube.com/shorts/C5BCUmkYDAk

I can’t tell, can your phone record in slow motion? But let’s assume it is USX.

Then, can you write detailed TAB that explains what you expect to be going on with your chosen scale? And does what you expect (TAB) match what happens (slow motion video)?

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@Saico I’d say your motions are similar to mine (I think even @joebegly said mine looked “trapped”), with the “string hopping” being used as a helper motion to switch strings, looking like finger motion as well.

Have you tried slowly increasing the tempo on the “inefficient motion” phrase and see at what point you can no longer play it?

Edit: quick ideas to improve it

  • you’re doing a long pattern of 2 notes per string across many strings, which means you need to do that helper motion pretty frequently. Try something like looping patterns of 2 adjacent strings, that lets you use the helper motion but less frequently. The patterns at 2:50 until the end of the video might help.
  • try to make the motion smaller with time!
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Yeah the striking similarity in both of your mechanics is that as the wrist moves, your forearm moves in the opposite direction, indicating no excess tension. Very nice :ok_hand:

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I thought that the definition of USX was alternating between trapped (on downstroke) ↔︎ escaped (on upstroke), where this alternation takes place if there is a string change or not.

It sounds to me that there is a different technique under discussion here, where the pick stays trapped unless a string change is necessary, and then there is “helper motion” to escape (on necessary upstrokes). In fact, this reminds me of what seems to be going on when some people are switching between USX ↔︎ DSX. Is that right?

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Yes, you are correct. This is a different mechanic which I’m not sure how frequently is talked about. Honestly @joebegly brings it up the most I feel, so he might be the one to ask, lol. From what I understand, all string changes require a “trick” (swiping, string hopping, legato, etc).

Might be!

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I think that no trick is required if:

  • you’re USX and you just did an upstroke.
  • you’re DSX and you just did a downstroke.
  • you’re DSX and you did an upstroke or a downstroke.

Am I right? Let’s have somebody smarter than me confirm. I think that one way for you to view what I’m saying is to imagine that you’re playing your current motion and somebody rotated your guitar 15 degrees around its D string, your motion would now alternate between trapped and escaped, but be exactly the same, otherwise.

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You’re correct, but my statement was specifically talking about a “trapped” motion.

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Thank you for the confirmation! What are the upsides and downsides of the “zero-escape” (trapped) motion (does it have an official name?) vs. ordinary single-escaped motions like USX or DSX?

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I’m gonna take a few guesses.

USX and DSX have the benefit of being a “pure”, single motion. Once you get the groove of either of those, you can just do the same motion and play things that fit those mechanics, and eventually pick up some “tricks” along the way to incorporate different phrases that “pure” USX / DSX can’t do.

“Trapped” picking is going to force a few things to happen.

  • You’ll have to develop some kind of helper motion, and feel comfortable with it. Might be some finger movement, swiping, legato, etc. This will allow you to eventually play lines that “pure” USX / DSX will have a harder time with.
  • You’ll probably start to have shallower pick depth, as this will make the “helper motion” be more efficient. Depending on your technique, this shallower pick depth might become DBX with time and practice.
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Thank you for your input and support!

Oh yes, I tried to increase my tempo very slowly - round about 1 year on that lick, I will show you in the end of my post. That’s a part of Triviums Solo in Dying in your arms.

For example, I can’t still play Laid to rest by Lamb Of God on 100% tempo, just 90% - my muscles tire quickly out.

I never focused on my picking hand that much. My speed limit across the strings is between 100-120 bpm sixteenth notes. Depends on complexity of the lick.

Everything I’ve heard about stringhopping for now, does it even make sense to improve this technique? I’d like to stop with that and begin to focus on a “real” and more efficient picking motion. What’d you say? Do I have everything to relearn now?

With all the background knowledge now, it should definitely be easier for me to work with the pickslanting primer, right?

slowmo:
https://youtube.com/shorts/-hkyt1-FVa0?si=HqyLMORc6cZXKMKZ

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You are a Master of Mechanics member, so you can get Troy or Tommo to give you expert guidance and analysis of your video.

My layperson theory is that you are attempting DBX and don’t have an efficient motion for it.

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You’ve got 2 motions. A good (awesome!!!) one, and the string hopping one. The string hopping one won’t get better. The limits you are reporting are textbook. The path forward for you is to use your tremolo motion on patterns/licks/phrases. You said it’s USX, so play some USX stuff! :slight_smile: One other thing you can try that I haven’t seen mentioned here to play some simple “melodies” with your tremolo. Just make sure you always change strings after an upstroke to match your motion. That can ease you into involving your fretting hand, which can actually yank that picking hand into a different motion since old habits die hard.

The main thing to remember about picking motions is that it’s possible to learn variations (helper motions) or a different motion entirely, but Troy strongly recommends people get really comfortable with one motion first, in “coordinated lead playing” with excellent hand sync. This gives you a baseline for what fast, efficient picking feels like and you can use it as a comparison to anything else you dabble in. Everyone says they want a motion that can change strings after upstrokes AND downstrokes but the reality is that few players actually need that. If people as technically proficient as Yngwie, EJ and John McLaughlin have made careers out of their techniques, I think it should at least be a place where us mortals are ok starting at.

Anyway, @Saico you’re so far ahead of many, because you’ve already found a great motion. Many are still in the phase where they can’t quite get one down. I’d echo @kgk’s advice to take advantage of your membership and submit a technique critique. I’m confident Troy/Tommo will tell you very similar things to what you’ve been hearing, but it’s worth getting their expert opinion.

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