can’t one do 3 octave 7th chord arpeggios w economy quite easily? the most convenient fingering I can think of would be 2nps
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All great players! I had never heard of Spiro before; thanks!
I bet Anton oparin could do 3 octave 7th chord arppegios
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Yes, he can. Anton’s awesome!
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Hey yo,
I’ve been working on my USX technique over the last few days.
Here’s the result
[https://youtube.com/shorts/NwbfqjCeo4c?si=3qMGoEMpygf-C4vs]
[https://youtube.com/shorts/nxYSZ02xhNo?si=TbmxOIebksTGnrY-]
It still feels weird, and I’m not sure if I’m doing it right. I’m trying to copy it from Spiro as best as I can (pretty sure he has anchor points A and B on the guitar).
What do you think?
This looks like the same motion to me, roughly 166bpm 16th notes? It looks closer to a deviation based USX motion but in my own experience I’ve been able to get a deviation based USX motion to 195bpm 16th notes fairly comfortably so that says to me that your current motion is inefficient.
I think you need to work closer to your target speed. Throw on a metronome at 120bpm (or even higher if those are the speeds your aiming for) and try to play a simple sextuplet pattern on loop, your current motion will probably give out but you keep changing and trying to keep up and see if you can find a new way to move your wrist that feels easy 
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Thanks, I’ll check it out today! Just got a few strugglws with the chunking, my goal tempo is faster, than I can hear if it‘s right or wrong…
I also found this video:
[https://youtube.com/shorts/vYIqf9LtlX8?si=qnU54bdte1WXm9rW]
I would summarize that this is USX with a very slight supernated forearm. The arm is pretty much flat with a minimal twist. It looks like the movement is around 85% deviation, 15% flex/ext.
My goal would be 220 bpm 16th notes and upwards, this motion should definitely be able to handle that!
220bpm 16th notes tends to be the upper limit of the ergonomic mouse RDT form, might be worth using a trailing edge grip and trying to achieve tall ergonomic mouse RDT for those sorts of speeds 
In that screenshot it kinda looks like that but if you go to the ascending economy run at the 0:24 mark, I’m not seeing any deviation. To me it looks like he has a killer finger motion combined with flex/ext (notice the wrist turning outward slightly).
It kinda looks like Tony MacAlpine’s motion but Tony doesn’t have the finger motion element:
@Jacklr where are you getting the 220 bpm limit for ergonomic RDT from? I’m pretty sure there are several examples of RDT players with that form who well exceed that limit. John Petrucci is one example that comes to mind. Just curious if there’s an actual basis for this being the limit for most players
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Do you have any examples?
I’ve found this to be the case in my own playing (though I max out around 210bpm 16th notes) and it’s also the point Troy switches to his trailing edge grip in the RDT video:
I also had Petrucci in mind. In Rock Discipline he plays the spider exercise at 216 bpm, with some elbow and I wanted to tackle that with Spiro’s technique. The thing with the fingers is definitely a good call.
Starts around 41:00:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ababg5Y8kA&t=2488s]
I believe this guy is small mouse RDT as well and he’s sustaining 240 bpm sixteenths for a minute:
There must be a way to either train the endurance of this form of RDT or tweak it a bit as these players have done to exceed the 220 bpm threshold.
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Ah, I love Igor but I’m sure this video of his playing has been debunked in another thread before, I think the conclusion was that he’s not actually playing in time at 240bpm and is a little bit under or missing some notes? I can’t remember!
That being said Igor’s posture is getting to that point where it kinda looks like Eddie’s middle finger pick grip which is very similar to a tall ergonomic mouse form though maybe not as maximally efficient as a trailing edge grip(?)
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I’m sure he could do it easily, but it was foreign to him at the time. Starting on the root the easiest is actually 2-3-1-3-1 etc economy with two notes on the Low E.
cool thing about Spiro is that he aspires to perform at high levels of improv (he told me this n a lesson). many players at his speed level have it all worked out.
Yo, I’ve been studying guitar technique again, but I’m kind of stuck. I put together this checklist to stay on track:
- Straight Arm with Light Supination
- Ensure your arm is mostly straight, with a very slight supination (outward rotation).
- Thumb Position
- Thumb is nearly straight, with a slight bend for flexibility.
- Fixed Finger Position
- Maintain consistent positioning from index to pinky finger; avoid changes during picking.
- No Forearm Movement
- The forearm remains stationary, without any unnecessary movement.
- Motion Primarily from the Wrist
- Picking motion should come mostly from the wrist, with slight thumb movement allowed.
- Classic Pick Grip
- Hold the pick with the pad of the thumb and the side of the index finger.
- Curled Fingers Over High E-String
- Middle finger to pinky should remain slightly curled and hover just above the high E-string, indicating minimal finger movement.
Even when I follow everything on this list, my results are ridiculously bad. What Spiro is doing looks like 16th notes at around 227 BPM—that should be doable, right? When I test my tremolo picking with this technique, I max out at around 120 BPM 16ths, and it feels awful.
Can anyone help me figure out which technique of the series is closest to Spiro’s? I’d really like to break it down step by step and get this sorted.
Hey! Im not sure which lesson that was you had with me, but I play those patterns very often.^ (my guess is I was playing something I usually arrange on a different set of strings starting on a group of 3 or 1 etc) Starting on a 2, or even groupings in general, are no issue, I typically just lean into the odd numbers for the wicked speed.
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Hey, cool to have you here! 
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I think it was just a fingering thing