Which Motion does Spiro Dussias use?

Playing Technique
#1

Hey guys, greetings and hello first of all :sunglasses:. My name is Marco and today I’m starting my in-depth picking technique journey. I’ve been dealing with this topic for a while and have been practicing like crazy without really getting to where I want to be.

I watched this video by Spiro Dussias

(specifically the part at 2:28 where you can see the picking hand – ironically, the most watched part of the video - shoutout to all you nerds out there :metal:). If I’m not mistaken, this should be the Dart-Thrower motion that Troy explains, right? Since Spiro can pretty much play everything and I naturally use a similar motion as primary (I think I tend to be a string-hopping patient ), I decided to make this motion my primary one.

The question is, how should I best start with this motion? Is it better to try tremolo picking with this motion on one string first? When I try it just from the wrist, it feels really weird and I have other motions in my repertoire (e.g., elbow movement or twisting my palm so that the pick is in an upward pickslant) that feel much better and allow me to play faster at single string (Spiro uses this also in this video at 0:48, must be DSX I think, where the hand is in a 2 o`clock motion

I’m also pretty sure, that I use trempick as kind of a secondary motion, where I naturally switch to DSX

Or should I first try licks in the style shown in the video?

Thanks a lot for your help and insights in advance! :pray:

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#2

Spiro is a DSX (Downstroke escape player) and has excellent economy of motion. Based on wrist only movement, and DSX you get RDT motion.

Rather than worry about what 'licks to learn or practice, start with tremolo first and get the going at a reasonable tempo (160bpm+) before worrying about licks.

Sprio can tremolo well above 200bpm (250bpm is the highest I’ve seen so far from him) so that’s what I would focus on first.

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#3

Ah, got it! Thanks a lot, dude :pray:. I can’t even imagine hitting 250 bpm with the DSX motion (watching the Negative-video at 0:48, I think he switches it up, but I could be wrong). But thanks for the tip, I’ll dive into the videos and see how far I can go. I’ll post an update here in the coming days.

#4

No problem! The key thing Troy (and others will say) is that you need to just find a motion that works for you relatively quickly, and then once you have a stable (and fast) tremolo you can start working on licks that capitalise on the pick escape you’re using (whether it be DSX OR USX)

Check out Spiro’s Instagram, lots of cool clips and licks.

#5

I know he uses “economy picking” for most things and does it better than anybody I’ve ever heard. I’d have to search for things where he changes directions, but I definitely see two different hand positions in the two time-stamps in the videos linked above

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#6

Great player!

Yeah the tremolo part around 1:07 of “negative” looks like classic wrist DSX with trigger grip - maybe even a bit of elbow? But he also plays ascending economy lines (Yngwie style), so for that he’d need to alter the motion path/setup a bit, like at 2:27 of the “espada” video which looks more like a USX setup (maybe with some finger motion?).

I agree it would be interesting to see what he does for those lines that are not very easy with economy picking (e.g. going back and forth between two strings). Does he just avoid those or does he have a different technique?

PS: Many thanks to the filming crew for the blurry camera angles :smiley:

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#7

Good call! My guess would be that he completely avoids those. From what it looks like in the videos, it seems he uses exclusively economy for all string changes, USX for the ascending lines, and DSX exclusively for descending. Makes total sense, I think. For all the fast single-string bleed picks, he seems to always use DSX (which I would probably do as well in his place).

#8

He’s also doing this thumb movement which is very obvious here:

I assume he’s using that for string changes that don’t naturally fit his DSX motion? I remember him saying that movement is crucial for him in some instagram comment.

Either way his instagram account is a pretty good source for more videos of his movements.

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#9

I’ve been following him for a long time on instagram, and on that platform I don’t think I’ve seen him do much that wouldn’t fit nicely into economy, eg no quick changes back and forth between strings, but I could be very wrong. I’m sure he can, but I think he’s big on working out lines and riffs that play to his (insane) strengths.

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#10

Just for general understanding. The part in Espada I was talking about (2:27) should actually be USX, right? Is that then USX RDT?

#11

That seems to be a key characteristic of the greats! (YJM, EJ, Shawn Lane, George Benson, and so on)

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#12

Perhaps it can be helpful to look at his contact points on the bridge/guitar body.

In the DSX moments, like the tremolo or “bleed-style” rhythm, I think he is contacting with A and B.
In the ascending economy scale, you can see that point A lifts away from the guitar body, so it’s either B only or B+C:

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#13

Yeah nice, thanks!

Here are those 2 in practise:

First attempt tremolo 170 USX Motion (which I want to use for ascending)

First attempt tremolo 230 DSX Motion (descending and tremolo use)

As you see it’s a lot easier for me to do the DSX, first goal is to get the USX at the DSX trem-speed and build from there

#14

Those videos seem to be set to private.

#15

sorry, now it works!

#16

While the DSX motion is smoother, it isn’t any faster. In the 170 example you’re playing 16ths, in the 230 you’re playing 8th note triplets. These are almost exactly the same speed.

#17

Correct, I’ve had a lesson with Spiro and we went over this. The majority of the time he keeps contact with the bridge using points A and B. His thumb is the main thing he’s conscious of when doing string changes. He uses thumb movement primarily when doing descending economy picking lines. In terms of his fast tremolo and rhythm playing stuff, it’s all DSX with minimal pick depth and light playing.

Great player, and very minimal effort type technique. In the interest of fairness however, Marshall Harrison is a much better (but not cleaner) economy picker. Spiro sticks to pretty standard patterns, and was completely out of his comfort zone with 3 Octave 7th arpeggios (a staple of Marshalls)

#18

Marshall playing vs spiros vs Rick graham economy who wins

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#19

Marshall by a country mile, I really don’t think it’s close.

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#20

Id argue ricks considering Marshall at least from an old stream he did considered Rick a better player than him or called him a master once and they both have great hand sync

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