Which way should I choose?

I’m struggling on USX motion using forearm movement, because my wrist movement is pretty slow and USX with (pure) wrist movement does not seem to work for me. I’m currently trying two styles of picking and wondering which way to go.

Style A (first video):
I hold my pick with decent force (more than Style B) to stabilize. By doing so, the first joint of my thumb gets more straight (less bent) than Style B and as a result edge picking angle gets like less than 30 degrees. Since I hold my pick with more force than Style B, I have more control. However, probably because edge picking angle is less, I need more force to get my pick go through strings. This seems to lead to string-hoppy movement. In down picking motion I kind of push string with my thumb. I can change strings relatively easily. I probably use forearm rotation to change strings. Since my pick gets farther on low pitch strings (A or low E strings), I use joints of my index finger and thumb to reach the strings. Tone gets less noisy I think.

Style B (second video):
I hold my pick more loosely. I bend my thumb more than Style A. Edge picking angle gets closer to 45 degrees. Since I hold my pick loosely, I need less force to have my pick get through the strings. I kind of scratch strings. The trajectory of the pick seems to be more straight. Currently my both hands are not really synchronized. I even could not slow down the motion but gradually I’m getting able to slow down as I practice. I have trouble in string changes. It is really difficult to change to low pitch strings (like from G string to D string), because I have less control on joints of my index finger and thumb.

I’m asking because I really can’t believe in Style B because of difficulty in string changes and over all control on articulation and rhythm.

I’m probably asking about how I hold picks, how my pick should get through strings, and string changes.

Thanks in advance.

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I think I hold the pick more like in Style B, with a bit of a bump at the thumb mid joint. The forearm rotation looks good, this is the general position for DPS/USX - especially for gypsy acoustic players. In general, I try to keep my grip on the pick as light as possible. Just enough pressure to keep it from slipping or rotating, but no more tension then that.

I didn’t observe major differences between either video, I’m sure you’re experiencing things in more subtle detail than we can see visually. You seem to be on the right track with your grip.

For Left + Right hand sync, perhaps isolating a few DPS picking studies would be helpful. The Cascade seminar / EJ pentatonic sixes is a good lick for this kind of thing. https://troygrady.com/seminars/cascade/clips/pentatonic-chunk-upper/

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I agree with @LuckyMojo that there doesn’t seem to be any big difference between your two videos. Your form looks sound. The motion does seem a bit jerky or jumpy however. Look at your first video for example, it seems you’re trying to jump over the string by lifting your hand (wrist extension) as you’re making the pick stroke. This happens on both up- and downstrokes. This is stringhopping. It could be due to the way you hold your pick, it appears to get stuck on the string on the upstrokes.

I suggest trying to get a good solid rest stroke tremolo going, just to get a feel for the forearm+wrist USX motion you’re aiming at. Try different picks, different grips, more edge picking and so on!

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LuchyMojo, Johannes, thank you for your replies! I think I got a bit more promising feedback for Style B. After my last post, I’ve noticed one difference between Style A and B. In Style A, I anchor my pinky to high E string pretty firmly. In Style B, I don’t anchor my pinky and it sweeps the surface of guitar body along with middle/ring fingers.

OK, I will dig Style B further. I’m posting new video. In this video I’m explaining my three questions.

(1) (at 1:03 of the video) Am I doing right, or at least going preferable direction, in string changes?
I currently don’t have enough skill to do the pentatonic sixes LuckyMojo suggested, so I’m trying a pattern with tremolo and string changes. Very sloppy currently.

(2) (at 1:36 of the video) In this gypsy-like style how do you manage the distance between your pick and strings? For example, switching from G string to D string, the distance gets larger, assuming that the axis of forearm rotation remains the same.
Approach 1: (1:47) By stretching index finger and thumb, mainly using extension/flexion movement of the second joint of my index finger
Approach 2: (2:10) By changing the height of palm (distance from the guitar body), using extension/flexion movement of my wrist
Approach 3: (2:31) By elbow movement, keeping height of my palm the same

(3) (at 2:54 of the video) This might be something nobody can answer, but why is it difficult for me to do Troy’s rest-palm-on-the-bridge’s kind of style? If I try this style, I feel I have no room to move my pick. It might be because my thumb is a little bit shorter. For this reason I’m trying gypsy-like style (“flamingo’s shaking head” style. Not sure if you get what I mean).

Thanks!!

Thanks for posting these! I think this is a good example of how we can easiliy tend to overanalysize ourselves. What’s going on here is super simple. The first video is major stringhopping. Drop this method. Done.

The second video is better. There are brief moments in here where your motion is perfect. In the other moments you flip flop between a trapped motion, which is smooth but not escaping, and stringhopping, which is not smooth. So what you are seeing in this second video is what it looks like when someone is learning a new motion and can’t tell when they’re doing it right from when they’re doing it wrong. This is an important early stage in the learning process, and means you’re on the right track!

Your goal is to learn to differentiate by feel when you’re doing it right. For reference, the correct motion appears briefly at 35 seconds. I didn’t watch the rest of the clip in detail, there are probably other moments. You can see at 35 seconds that for a split second it starts to go fast and the attack sounds even. When that happens, it will be accompanied by a feeling of smoothness in the motion. These two ingredients, the feeling of motion smoothness and the even sound, are what you’re looking for.

I would not do the random starting and stopping and rhythmic patterns you’re doing here. None of those attempts have the smoothness of the 35 second attempt, so they’re not helping. For the most part, you’re just looking to get a continuous motion on a single string. You can do simple synchronized left hand patterns, either sixteenths or sextuplets, whatever you like. But keep it simple and even. If you’re not playing a continuous pattern you won’t be able feel the ingredients we’re talking about.

Once you can start to replicate the smooth feeling to where you can do it on command and you are sure it’s right, you can start to move these patterns around on a single string. Once you get that, you can start to move these patterns across the strings. But no rhymic patterns and starts and stops - smooth continuous playing is what you want. You can film yourself occasionally to verify that the motion looks correct and not bouncy.

Nice work, you’ll get there.

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Troy, Thank you for your encouragement!
As a record of my one month and a half of quarantined work, I’m posting my video for tremolo and sixes, following the second option (style B). I bought an iPhone so I can share slow mo versions this time.

I would like to ask you guys whether I’m on the right track. I believed I’m synchronized to some extent, but I was surprised to see how obvious that I’m far from synchronization, in slow motion…

The last video is my cramp (or convulsions, if it is a more correct English word) that occasionally occurs when I start tremolos. How do you overcome this? Just practice?

Tremolo (normal speed)

Tremolo (slow)

Sixes (normal speed)

Sixes (slow)

Cramp