Whose technique is your ideal and most want to copy?

[jptk]

@Fossegrim

FWIW, I don’t recommend anybody try and copy how Paul plays unless you are a ‘6.4 Ectomorph with long alien hands. If you like what he does just focus on pick attack and his lines however you can do it. Those are the two most important things about how he sounds

Also, I’m a little unclear as to how he is holding his pick these days. Middle and index finger? I’m unsure

[Jacklr]

@Fossegrim

The angle of the shot is key. In shots floating around that show his picking hand from the pick holding front side and he doesn’t have much of a tilt at all - It looks pretty “trapped” and he sort of skates over the strings when possible, He also uses thumb movement that is hard to catch.

Found this video where he talks about using an upward slant, linked at the timestamped location:

Paul Gilbert - Right Hand

But he also showcases what looks like wrist-forearm USX so I don’t even know what to think anymore :

Paul Gilbert - Right Hand

[tommo]

@jptk

I’m a little unclear as to how he is holding his pick these days.

I’ve seen Paul Gilbert live in 2019-ish, as far as I could see he does the 3-finger grip to play most of his recent material, but goes back to his standard grip for the moments of “intense rock-style shred”

[BillHoudini]

What an absolute freak PG is lol

I can’t believe his level every time I listen to his playing.

[joebegly]

@Fossegrim

Well it also helps to clarify what type of muting we are talking about. Muting to deaden the strings that you don’t want to ring out, or muting for chugging rhythms and or staccato lead playing. The latter is really sensitive to where you are placing your hand to mute if you want it to sound good, and complicated by the fact that it isn’t in the same area vertically across all the strings.

Great points. I shouldn’t put words in peoples mouth but I assumed we were talking about the “chugging” stuff. Around here I’ve seen the terms “noise control” or “dampening” referring to that “other” type of muting.

@Jacklr

Found this video where he talks about using an upward slant, linked at the timestamped location:

I wonder if he’s exaggerating the upward slant to prove a point there? He doesn’t actually play in that posture.

@Jacklr

But he also showcases what looks like wrist-forearm USX so I don’t even know what to think anymore :

We get a great shot of his palm muting at 4:48. It’s what I’d consider the “classic” palm mute that most people are taught. The pinky side / palm heel. Same way I’d do it if I were playing Master of Puppets. And, as we’d expect, there is no upward slant happening there in Paul’s playing

@Fossegrim

FWIW, I don’t recommend anybody try and copy how Paul plays unless you are a ‘6.4 Ectomorph with long alien hands. If you like what he does just focus on pick attack and his lines however you can do it. Those are the two most important things about how he sounds.

Great advice. I think there are generalities that are worth imitating in any player, but certain specifics could very well become personal/anatomical and have us barking up the wrong tree. Bottom line, everything we do should feel comfortable. If it’s not, it’s wrong. All the greats found their own technique by intuition and I can’t imagine any of them saying “Uggghhh…that felt extremely uncomfortable. I should probably do more of that”. More likely, they moved on until they found what felt/sounded good and worked forward from there.

[joebegly]

@tommo

that’s true, with a lot of pronation it may be difficult to get palm muting — but is it impossible?

@joebegly

I asked Bill Hall how he does it from a pronated position in some other thread. I’d forgotten what he said but I will dig it up.

There’s no video here, but Bill understands his technique very well. Here’s what he told me about it

Palm Muting with Elbow Motion

Thank you, @joebegly! I do use muting with the elbow mechanic at times. I had to just now pick up my guitar to see what I actually do, lol. Most of the time I use my wrist more when muting…especially when playing rhythm stuff or medium tempo lines. If I was going to play faster lines with muting I would use the elbow. I actually do it by just flattening my palm so it touches the strings while keeping my elbow motion and right hand position the same. When I use the elbow without muting…the pink…

Linking doesn’t always take us right to the post like it did years ago (reminds me, I need to look into that). so here’s a screenshot of his answer:

We know Bill is pronated when he does his bread and butter elbow motion, but he mentions flattening out his palm to get the muting to happen. Does that mean he has to just slightly supinate? I’ve tried a few things just now and that’s what I have to do to get palm muting working while maintaining an upward slant (again, just so we don’t drift backward 6 years I have to stress that we don’t NEED and upward slant for DSX!!!). So I’m still in a pronated position but getting palm muting with my pinky heel.

I’ll film some magnet shots and put them in a new thread. All this talk is interesting but unfortunately…off topic lol

[Fossegrim]

@jptk

Also, I’m a little unclear as to how he is holding his pick these days. Middle and index finger? I’m unsure

He kind of uses the pad of his index more with the side of his middle for some support. He used to switch between that and his regular playing, but I just saw some recent-ish mr big footage where he was using it for everything thing.

When I first saw him do that, my thought was that he may have some arthritis from doing what he has been doing for so many years.

[jptk]

@Fossegrim

When I first saw him do that, my thought was that he may have some arthritis from doing what he has been doing for so many years

I never even thought of that, it could be something like that alright

[TheRealMikeD]

@Jacklr

But he also showcases what looks like wrist-forearm USX so I don’t even know what to think anymore

My guess, from watching this and from watching a lot of his other videos, is that he plays mostly perpendicular, with a double-escape motion, but tilts up or down for particular licks, when it feels comfortable for him to do so.

And as he goes on to say in that video, he doesn’t feel compelled to pick everything. So, while some of his licks feature ludicrously fast alternate picking, he is mixing in a lot of hammer-ons and pull-offs, and it’s often going by at such speeds that it’s difficult for a listener to notice.

[Fossegrim]

@joebegly

I wonder if he’s exaggerating the upward slant to prove a point there? He doesn’t actually play in that posture.

He does often exaggerate motions when he showing them slowly to showcase the concept. In some videos he jumps his hand far above the plane of the strings to demonstrate the idea. He doesn’t ever play that way, and if you were to copy exactly what he shows, there’s no way you would be playing with any kind of speed.

@Jacklr

But he also showcases what looks like wrist-forearm USX so I don’t even know what to think anymore :

Funny right?

@joebegly

We get a great shot of his palm muting at 4:48. It’s what I’d consider the “classic” palm mute that most people are taught. The pinky side / palm heel. Same way I’d do it if I were playing Master of Puppets. And, as we’d expect, there is no upward slant happening there in Paul’s playing

That kind brings back to something I think I’ve said on here before, and Its that I think a lot of people for better or worse, develop their lead playing hand positioning from their rhythm playing which makes sense since rhythm playing is usually the first thing you learn. And people that started off using that “classic” palm mute to play master of puppets still use that hand positioning for their lead playing. I know for a fact I do. Maybe I’m generalizing though.

[TheRealMikeD]

@Fossegrim

And people that started off using that “classic” palm mute to play master of puppets still use that hand positioning for their lead playing. I know for a fact I do. Maybe I’m generalizing though.

Right there with you!

[tommo]

Following up from Yngwie praising Al Di Meola, here’s another fun one: George Benson wishing he could pick like Pat Martino

The bit I’m talking about is at approx 4’34’’

George Benson how to play fast

[Jacklr]

@joebegly

I wonder if he’s exaggerating the upward slant to prove a point there? He doesn’t actually play in that posture.

Yep that’s a good point, looks almost like Molly Tuttle’s setup which is definitely not how he actually plays.

Re-watching Troy’s video on DSX he really highlights how most DSX has no obvious pickslant, if you catch it at the right angle, in the right light, on the right player then maybe but it’s so negligible it’s almost not worth mentioning

@TheRealMikeD

My guess, from watching this and from watching a lot of his other videos, is that he plays mostly perpendicular, with a double-escape motion, but tilts up or down for particular licks, when it feels comfortable for him to do so.

Agree with you on him playing mostly perpendicular but I don’t think he uses double-escape, he doesn’t really do things that DBX players do does he? Does he ever really play Steve Morse style lines and alternate picked 1nps arpeggios?

[joebegly]

@Jacklr

Agree with you on him playing mostly perpendicular but I don’t think he uses double-escape, he doesn’t really do things that DBX players do does he? Does he ever really play Steve Morse style lines and alternate picked 1nps arpeggios?

Not that I’m aware of. I think his motion is probably capable but we’ll just have to wonder since he didn’t really go down that road. I’ve always heard Troy refer to Paul as a mixed escape wrist player, which is different than a double escape player. The former does what’s described above - changes escapes on an as needed basis. The latter is what happens when crosspicking - each stroke escapes via a gentle curve

[TheRealMikeD]

@Jacklr

Does he ever really play Steve Morse style lines and alternate picked 1nps arpeggios?

Not at speed, that I’m aware of. For slower arpeggios, maybe.

[SomeAverageJoe]

I’m convinced that Paul Gilbert is either an alien from a superior dimension or an advanced human from the future sent back to help us evolve as players.

[Fossegrim]

@joebegly

@Jacklr

Agree with you on him playing mostly perpendicular but I don’t think he uses double-escape, he doesn’t really do things that DBX players do does he? Does he ever really play Steve Morse style lines and alternate picked 1nps arpeggios?

Not that I’m aware of. I think his motion is probably capable but we’ll just have to wonder since he didn’t really go down that road. I’ve always heard Troy refer to Paul as a mixed escape wrist player, which is different than a double escape player. The former does what’s described above - changes escapes on an as needed basis. The latter is what happens when crosspicking - each stroke escapes via a gentle curve

I would agree that if we use @joebegly description above, for his fast lead type guitar playing using scalar lines, he is mixed escape, and stays fairly anchored to the bridge with his pinky side palm. However, he very well may be capable of double escape for arpeggiated chords. There may very well be some example of him doing that with arpeggios out there - maybe during his MI days. In the clip posted above, he clearly uses a shallow rotational radiused shaped escape when changing strings on both down and up strokes when you slow down the footage. His rotational movement when changing after an up is more prominent, but that also could be the angle we are viewing at. He does have pretty controlled pick strokes though that are pretty contained around the string he is playing and because of that, I think the faster he plays, the more shallow those escapes have to become, and that’s when he starts skating/brushing over those strings AKA swiping.

When he plays “the lick” slower right before going into a brief rendition of crazy train and then playing it faster, you can see exaggerated woodpecker hopping. That’s just him trying to embellish what he’s doing. He never actually plays like that.

[joebegly]

After careful consideration I would like to submit another answer for the ideal technique that I’d most want. …

Rick Graham. Killer alternate picking, killer economy and sweeping, I saw him cover Glass Prison all alternate picking, killer hybrid, killer legato (both using traditional pull offs and the “all hammers” approach), and as if that isn’t enough he is legit classically trained too. Also, he’s very melodic and musical.

[TheRealMikeD]

Rick is an amazing player. Good choice.

[ScottyB]

I’ve been thinking about this topic for awhile now, because I didn’t really have an answer to it because the question seems very odd to me.

I don’t want to copy anyone elses technique per se, I want to find techniques that work for me so I can play what I want. I don’t really associate techniques with any one particular player except for very unique ones like Marty Friedman.

Stylistically, well that’s a completely different question and it seems to me that is what is really being asked and expressed in this thread. So my answer to that is Randy Rhoads sense of composition and fireyness, mixed with Eric Johnson and Andy Woods fluidity, mixed with Allan Holdsworths amazing sense of harmony and smoothness mixed with Jeff Beck’s amazing phrasing and unorthodox expression, mixed with David Gilmour’s amazing expressiveness and touch, mixed with Scott Ian’s crushing tone and fun, mixed with James Hetfields impeccible timing and control.

I don’t want much do I? Hah!