Working on your crosspicking technique? Turn it sideways

This topic is linked to a Cracking the Code webpage. View the original page here:
https://troygrady.com/2018/09/24/working-on-your-crosspicking-technique-turn-it-sideways/

Quick blog post on using a dobro-style orientation as a learning device for crosspicking technique. Here’s a quick demonstration on the big box:

The “laptop” approach was something we stumbled on by accident when filming. It was initially just a way to get a better view of the motion. We used a studio monitor stand and put the guitar on it. I didn’t really expect it to work, but it only takes a moment to adjust. In fact, for anyone working on this technique, it may offer an alternative opportunity to get the motion happening in a way that is somewhat more comfortable than typical playing position.

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I kinda did the same thing when I was beginning.

Also… because my tracking was so pathetic early on…I would actually move the guitar body to simulate string tracking… I needed a way to at least feel like I could move my mechanic across the strings.

Guitar lying on the floor - thats how I ‘learned’ guitar, since for me it was some strange sort of piano )

That’s kind of cool, haha. I’ll try this tonight.

That IS cool. Thanks!

Did you try it and what’s the skinny?

Super helpful Troy, definitely like this method. I wonder what the research is on motor learning and perspective shifts. Found this on Noa’s site.

https://bulletproofmusician.com/is-it-true-that-theres-a-way-to-learn-skills-twice-as-fast/

“The second training session was much like the first one, in that both groups practiced the same skill for another 120 trials. However, while Group 1’s controller remained the same, Group 2’s controller was modified slightly. Specifically, the amount of pressure that was needed to move the cursor kept changing from one trial to the next. Not enough for them to notice, but enough to force them to constantly make subtle adjustments in order to maintain a high level of speed and accuracy. It would be like if the amount of force you needed to turn the steering wheel in your car changed every time you made a turn (a.k.a. the most annoying car in the world).”

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It feels way more natural than I would have expected. I’m struggling a bit with the guitar rocking a little on my leg as I played, but, well, like you said - I didn’t expect it to work at ALL, yet ti does.

…then I got sidetracked and started playing in the normal position again. :rofl:

This is a great finding Noa is pointing out here and typical of the kind of suprising things you find when you start reading motor learning papers. However according to the study this effect only works if you can actually do the target motion first. Basically you learn it, then undo it a little, the re-learn it with these variations applied.

In the case of crosspicking we’re looking at something that most people can’t really do at all. So if they can suddenly do it in the lap orientation I would suggest something a little more prosaic is going on. I just think the lap approach positions your hand in pretty much the right setup which you would otherwise have to discover and maybe not get right. Plus it requires no effort to maintain that form. You’re just resting there on the guitar. All you have to do is move left and right.

Of course being comfortable is one thing and being able to really do the motion is another. Let’s see some video clips!

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I’ll see if I can stabilize my guitar enough to shoot some video in normal and horizontal orientation tonight. :+1:

Isn’t it simply that on your lap, you can use some elbow flexion/extension to assist the vertical component (burying/escaping; entry/exiting or whatever the current terminology is ;)). Whereas, in the normal playing position any extra help to wrist movement and forearm rotation comes from rotating the upper arm?

Have you tried it? It doesn’t feel like elbow movement is happening, and I’m not really seeing any in the clips I’ve filmed of this. Not enough to account for the large picking motions anyway.

My guess again is that this orientation is somehow a hint at the right form and motion, which maybe isn’t as obvious in standard playing position. That or perhaps the anatomical pronation of the forearm has something to do with making this easier. Though I don’t know why that would be.

No, I hadn’t tried it. But hey, this is the internet - you don’t expect people to actually know what they’re talking about before they comment, do you? :wink:

Having tried it, I agree it doesn’t feel like elbow extension is doing it. But personally, I wouldn’t completely rule out some combined elbow-shoulder interaction being involved. And in your vid at the top there does seem to be quite a lot going on in the upper arm area.

It does seem easier! And for the first time I’ve experienced what you mean about doing it fast. It seems to automatically happen that way. Hmmmm.

Nice tone and playing there, Troy, btw.

Couple of things about the “feel” of doing this. I stumbled into it decades ago and have since lost and found it multiple times. The finding it had to do with realizing that with certain players I admired (Hendrix, SRV), there seemed to be such a perfect continuity between strumming and single note playing, and so I was trying to figure out how to make that happen. My guide in doing it was a particular feel the pick had in contacting the strings that sent a “this feels right!” signal to my brain. A kind of “straightness” in the up-picking direction and more of an angled contact in the downward, but both producing a kind of “ping” in the attack. And suddenly I’d get that light, easy “strummy” feeling even when playing single-note runs, pentatonics particularly. Without a better analytical framework it was hard to hold onto though. Where I tend to lose it is when I try to maintain it in other situations–multiple NPS runs and the like. You’re demonstrating it as strictly a SNPS arpeggio technique, which is huge, but I’d like to hear anything you have to say about the transition to more “dense” figures.

Related, and something I’ve been wanting to point out about this whole discussion for a while, is that the other guys who demonstrate absolute mastery of this kind of playing are the Afro-pop guitarists, where this easy, precise but ultra rapid and hypnotic arpeggio playing is a critical component ot the whole musical style. I’ve always hugely admired that kind of playing partly because it’s so different from what most of us Western shredders have primarily focused on

Anyway, I finally have a free day off–gonna spend a couple of hours trying the dobro position out!

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I actually learned how to crosspick just by watching Molly’s motion mechanics when they were published on th site. Yes, it was something that was buried in my motor memory, something i had learned and forgotten.

The “feel” of crosspicking makes me think of a fish swimming up a river. This should help you know when you get it.

Serendipitously, my brother had the opportunity to engineer on one of Molly’s recent live recordings just a few weeks ago. She’s amazing.

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Sounds like something we need to see some clips of!